Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[zh0r4]

Defense's own psych witness fills in the remaining blanks for me. RA was never this meek, friendly, ordinary CVS worker. Troubled, unwell, RX and alcohol mixing, damaged creature who was not getting enough attention so he went postal, low self-awareness, high neediness, he is a perfect candidate for harm. He's either going to hurt himself. Or someone else.

That day he lashed out. Slashed out.

He's an angry, demanding, dangerous man.

JMO

Did Dr. Wescott say he was an alcoholic? Listening to AB now, so far she hasn’t said Dr. Wescott mentioned alcoholism? She did confirm Dr. Wala’s diagnosis of Dependent Personality Disorder. She also said he had a history of depression and anxiety present most of his life since he was a child.

 

[Warwick7]

The sister allegations were deemed unreliable according to what I recall from the 3-day hearing in July/24. The D introduced none of what you refer to during that same hearing so now, almost 8 years later suddenly D finds a car? Sorry but I don’t believe it.

The real issue is the D are incapable of defending their client so their only hope is to deflect, hoping the jury won’t notice that’s RA still up there on that bridge. JMO

Exactly!

The defense hasn't presented any evidence whatsoever to show that RA is not BG.

No evidence about RAs actions, or even how he spent his time on 13th of February.

Not even one eyewitness (family, friend, coworker) testimony about his movements on 13th February. They haven't addressed anything relating to RA on the 13th of February at all.

 

[ClearAhead]

Ok. You're thinking they were standing at the end of the bridge for 7 minutes before BG got to them? It's always been an opinion that he was on them quickly and then went down the hill.

I admit I've had a mental block with this and I just can't make it work from beginning to end.

No ‘they’ are not standing at the end of the bridge, just Libby. That’s how she was able to capture BG close behind Abby on the bridge and why a bit of Abby’s arm was visible in the early BG photos that were released. TMS claim Abby is later rushing/running to get to where Libby was standing.

But at this point it seems both the P and the D are satisfied to allow the jury to form their own opinions about what is seen and said. There is no conclusive analysis of it from beginning to end to be found, although it’s been played for the jury at various times. JMO

Delphi double murder trial: Extended video from victim's phone played in court

A video filmed by 14-year-old victim Libby German on the day of her murder in Delphi, Indiana, was played for the jury on Tuesday.

abcnews.go.com

A 30-second clip of the video -- played Tuesday during testimony from forensic examiner Brian Bunner -- showed Libby filming herself and Abby walking on the Monon High Bridge. At one point, the camera panned up, and no one was behind Abby. In a later shot, the video shows a man walking behind her.

 

[photographer4]

Delphi murders trial: Psychologist said suspect had distorted reality during prison confessions

Richard Allen's sister and daughter also took the stand on Monday afternoon.

6abc.com

“The day's last witness was Brad Weber, who also testified earlier in the trial. He previously said he went straight home after work the day the girls were murdered.

Monday he changed his story and told defense attorneys that in 2017 he told police he went to various ATMs after his shift at the local Subaru plant.

Weber says police searched his land, buildings, house, and car. He says he was also questioned many times about the case. He admitted he told different stories to different investigators over the years.”

Ahuh. So he has no credibility either it seems. Least not to me. Mooo.

 

[Arkay]

The defense tried so repetitively to get their Franks motion in, and JG declined every time because there was no solid evidence.

That was the defense’s entire narrative, none of which panned out.

The lack of blood at the crime site—-which was actually saturated. The girls hung upside down—-which was completely fabricated. A runic F on the tree which was really a bloody handprint from a desperate Libby.

But that was their story and they were sticking to it.

Only now it’s BW with a van?

It’s everybody and anybody except the one man who was actually there?

I have no idea what BW looks like, but if he does not resemble BG, please defense, stop wasting everyone’s time.

Jmo

 

[Megnut]

Ok. You're thinking they were standing at the end of the bridge for 7 minutes before BG got to them? It's always been an opinion that he was on them quickly and then went down the hill.

I admit I've had a mental block with this and I just can't make it work from beginning to end.

Spatial aptitude, not my thing, but Libby crossed the bridge ahead of Abby, who was probably crossing it very timidly... until the bridge became suddenly less scary than the scary threat behind her. Those seven minutes could represent Libby waiting for Abby. It makes sense that Abby might have been on pace to take twice as long to cross.

It breaks me to think they were minutes away from sheer terror.

JMO

 

[SouthEnd]

Would you describe the crime scene as organized or unorganized? I’ve no opinion on the alcoholism parts. I’m curious how people would categorize the CS now that we have more info?

128. Delphi Trial Week Three Part 1

Podcast Episode · The Prosecutors: Legal Briefs · 04/11/2024 · 1h 23m

podcasts.apple.com

According to the Prosecutors, it would definitely fall under disorganised. However the FBI has updated their definitions, since the modern day thinking is that elements of organisation and disorganisation can coexist in a perp and a crime scene.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/serialmurder-pathwaysforinvestigations.pdf/view

 

[ClearAhead]

Libby would have been moving with her phone prior to the trail. Leaving the house, gerting in the car, etc.

Yes you’re right, the first time period should include movements from home.

I think the primary reason the step analysis was introduced was to prove Libby and Abby wasn’t led away and hours later brought back again to and from another location, refuting the D’s speculative early morning scenario.

JMO

 

[otto]

Yeah but it makes no sense to me. If the State's theory is he was interrupted by BW's arrival - if he got home around 2:30 - I don't know the exact time he gave - but if the phone stopped moving at 2:32 then the kids weren't just crossing the creek at that point. They weren't at the area at the bottom of the hill under the bridge. They couldn't be and still make it to where that phone ended up imo - especially when the State has claimed the terrain was difficult - you can search my prior posts to get the link to that.

Libby and Abby were down the hill and beneath the bridge at 2:18 pm. They were at the top of the bridge at 2:13 pm being forced down the hill, under the bridge. We know the girls were immediately told to undress somewhere in the nearby forest.

Richard Allen confessed that he forced the girls to go down the hill after flashing a gun. He was going to sexually assault them, but a white van drove by, so he was interrupted and forced the girls to cross the creek, where he slit their throats with a box cutter. Gotta wonder - was the sexual moment ruined for Richard Allen? He no longer felt the urge to sexually assault the teenagers. Instead, he killed them to eliminate witnesses?

Based on LIbby's phone movements, updated every 10 minutes, it looks like she stopped moving between 2:08 and 2:18 (perhaps after getting undressed). She remained there until 2:25, at the same approximate time that the van drove past. Then she moved, and elevation changes (20 feet) correspond with the ravine between Deer Creek and the Cemetery.

 

[m00c0w]

I've never read anything from the D about a white truck being parked at the CPS bldg. Is it in the link you posted?

Sorry, my phone did something weird when arranging the files and I selected the wrong one. I corrected it on the post and I’ll attach it here too. Page 20.

 

[BrownRice]

IMO, the wife is living in denial.

I think you’d have to. The truth is unbearable.

 

[photographer4]

The defense tried so repetitively to get their Frank’s motion in, and JG declined every time because there was no solid evidence.

That was the defense’s entire narrative, none of which panned out—-the lack of blood at the crime site, which was actually saturated. The girls hung upside down, which was completely fabricated. A runic F on the tree which was really a bloody handprint from a desperate Libby.

But that was their story and they were sticking to it.

Only now it’s BW with a van?

It’s everybody and anybody except the one man who was actually there?

I have no idea what BW looks like, but if he does not resemble BG, please defense, stop wasting everyone’s time.

Jmo

Their job is to suggest reasonable doubt. I haven’t heard them accuse BW of being the killer at all (I’m behind a bit, but it wasn’t in the article I just posted)… I think with the BW van thing they’re just showing the State’s theory and timeline does not work. It’s not real. I agree with how they’ve presented this and poked holes in the State’s case.

 

[m00c0w]

Delphi murders trial: Psychologist said suspect had distorted reality during prison confessions

Richard Allen's sister and daughter also took the stand on Monday afternoon.

6abc.com

“The day's last witness was Brad Weber, who also testified earlier in the trial. He previously said he went straight home after work the day the girls were murdered.

Monday he changed his story and told defense attorneys that in 2017 he told police he went to various ATMs after his shift at the local Subaru plant.

Weber says police searched his land, buildings, house, and car. He says he was also questioned many times about the case. He admitted he told different stories to different investigators over the years.”

Ahuh. So he has no credibility either it seems. Least not to me. Mooo.

Why are we picking the one reporting of BW’s testimony that differs from all of the others?

Not an opinion, a genuine question.

 

[Doghairrules]

BBM
I think we did hear ANOTHER/ Part of that theory today-
( but with a CandyMan instead of a ritual group)

The Candyman in the white van luring children with candy.

Wasn’t that an episode on charmed? Except it was ice cream instead of candy? Good Lord.

 

[Warwick7]

Libby and Abby were down the hill and beneath the bridge at 2:18 pm. They were at the top of the bridge at 2:13 pm being forced down the hill, under the bridge. We know the girls were immediately told to undress somewhere in the nearby forest.

Richard Allen confessed that he forced the girls to go down the hill after flashing a gun. He was going to sexually assault them, but a white van drove by, so he was interrupted and forced the girls to cross the creek, where he slit their throats with a box cutter. Gotta wonder - was the sexual moment ruined for Richard Allen? He no longer felt the urge to sexually assault the teenagers. Instead, he killed them to eliminate witnesses?

Based on LIbby's phone movements, updated every 10 minutes, it looks like she stopped moving between 2:08 and 2:18 (perhaps after getting undressed). She remained there until 2:25, at the same approximate time that the van drove past. Then she moved, and elevation changes (20 feet) correspond with the ravine between Deer Creek and the Cemetery.

Boom!! BAM!!!
I am going to put this in my personal timeline.

 

[katydid23]

I remember the psychologist that did those same tests for Jodi Arias---said she was sane, normal.....

Then state brought on their psych who said their tests showed she had mental health issues galore

I agree with the state's shrink in that case. But they both gave tests which were 'graded' by some kind of supposedly objective scoring system.

Since we have photos and video of Arias stabbing her boyfriend in the shower we know that the defence's psychologist must have used a faulty test process which said she was A O K.

I want to edit, because I didn't remember it correctly.

The Prosecution claimed: Borderline personality disorder/suicidal ideation and transient stress related paranoia .

The Defense expert claimed: Post traumatic stress disorder/Amnesia


Both sides used MPI tests and did evaluations and ended up with different results.

Jodi Arias Trial: Defense works to discredit prosecution witness who says Arias doesn't have PTSD

Arias claims self-defense but faces a potential death sentence if convicted of first-degree murder in Travis Alexander's 2008 killing

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Bbgiraffe]

Sorry, my phone did something weird when arranging the files and I selected the wrong one. I corrected it on the post and I’ll attach it here too. Page 20.

I am confused about why someone seeing a white truck at the CPS building at 4:20pm is relevant to anything. Is it just me? Does the defense really just throw anything at the wall on this thing or what?

 

[zh0r4]

I do not believe the defense psychiatrist-for-hire.

Dr. Westcott (Ph.D) has training in forensic psychology and neuropsychology, which are both extremely relevant to this case. She also said she is often a witness for the prosecution and has even been a witness for the prosecution and defense within the same trial. Everyone needs to make a living, Dr. Wala was also being paid. Nothing wrong with getting paid for your work. Most all expert witnesses are paid. Dr. Westcott compiled a 132-page detailed report and said there was 20 hours of video to analyze.

JMO.

Edit @Cyber sleuth this is where I heard she did analyze the video of the phone calls, from about 5-10 min from start to 1 hr 30 min.

Source:
From the beginning to about 1 hr 30 min.

 

[detectivewannab]

Baldwin can talk the talk but not walk the walk.

 

[otto]

But Libby is stationary at the end of the bridge so not walking. She's talking photos of Abby and BG. MOO

Location captures are every 10 minutes. From 2:08-2:18, Libby's phone moves from 707 meters elevation to 414 elevation. The time includes the 10 minute time interval that Libby was on the bridge with Abby before they were abducted to after the abduction.

1:31 pm – 2:08 pm – 1,682 steps (707.34 meters)
2:08 pm – 2:18 pm – 414.38 meters

There is no movement, or steps, from 2:18 to 2:25 pm. That must be where and when they were initially sexually assaulted. At 2:25 they're on the move again, with a 2 floor elevation in the last minute between 2:31 and 2:32 (the ravine, 66 steps (50.64 meters).

Libby stopped moving at approximately 2:15, and started moving again a 2:25. We estimate 2:15 because updates are 10 minute intervals, and 2:25 tracks back to 2:15, when there was no movement.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/