VERDICT WATCH Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #214

[photographer4]

Should Richard Allen be found not guilty on all the charges, he can stand on the courthouse steps afterwards and declare “I did do it, ha ha,”and yet he cannot be tried again for the SAME CHARGES.

This is due to the Constitutional clause of Double Jeopardy.

IANAL, so I’m open to correction, but I believe that if there exists some OTHER charge regarding this case that he is not currently charged with, he can be charged on that. Let’s pretend it’s something like theft of their clothing, or something else of that ilk that is true, but I doubt was bothered with in light of the kidnapping and murders.

I THINK I have that correctly, but will say JMO in case I misinterpreted.

Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Reminds me of OJ Simpson and his book: "If I did it, here's how..."

 

[lonetraveler]

Reminds me of OJ Simpson and his book: "If I did it, here's how..."

Yeah, I have that book. When I saw it in a Goodwill store I couldn't help myself.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don’t want to bicker but there are pictures of other individuals on the MHB and you can tell in comparison that BG is not of tall stature in comparison. He looks to be about the same height as Abby in comparison. In fact her feet look bigger than his on the planks. Just like our short perpetrator RA.
It also tracks that a witness stated when she passed the individual she said matched BG near freedom bridge that she he was “not tall”. That person was RA. In fact RA says it was RA.
And that BB mistook BG for a younger person due to his smaller stature as he stood on the 1st platform. RA also said he stood there that day.
I wish prosecution would have paid for the FBI to do the analysis just to help include RA.


jmo

 

[Jw192]

I disagree with your interpretation of the sticks. What stuck me most about the photo was the arrangement of the sticks, they all seem to have some meaning. The large branch over Libby's left arm is particularly bizarre. It is way more like ritualistic symbols than I imagined even after seeing the illustrations because of course there's some artistic license there. It is without a doubt not any attempt to cover the bodies but a deliberate pattern with some meaning to whoever did it.

It's a stick with naturally grown branches sticking from it. RA didn't make the stick have any sort of pattern or symbol, it simply grew that way. Laying on the girls there are 3 sticks per girl, some have branches sticking out of them which can make it look like there are more sticks than there are. IMO there is way too much read into the sticks, it looks to me like RA picked up whatever large sticks he could find close by and quickly attempted to conceal his actions in a panic.

I got a bit of telling off for discussing the pics earlier (I saw a sketch) which I apologize for and I hope now that they're being discussed by other members, that it's ok to do so now admin.

Hoping for a guilty verdict tomorrow though I wouldn't be surprised if the jurors are doing their due diligence and crossing their t's

MOO

 

[Sunny Day]

Reminds me of OJ Simpson and his book: "If I did it, here's how..."

Yes, I was thinking the same thing.

 

[lonetraveler]

I can't help but wonder about the second composit sketch showing the young guy and the witness who testified that she saw a beautiful, young guy with puffy hair.
This guy seems to me to be someone who the girls might would want to meet at the bridge. IMO, this was not investigated by detectives. There is so much disregard end. IMO

 

[MassGuy]

I can't help but wonder about the second composit sketch showing the young guy and the witness who testified that she saw a beautiful, young guy with puffy hair.
This guy seems to me to be someone who the girls might would want to meet at the bridge. IMO, this was not investigated by detectives. There is so much disregard end. IMO

They were looking for anyone and everyone who was there that day. They put that sketch out there BECAUSE they were looking for that guy, not because they didn’t investigate it.

They went down so many rabbit holes here and came up empty until Kathy Shank.

 

[lonetraveler]

They were looking for anyone and everyone who was there that day. They put that sketch out there BECAUSE they were looking for that guy, not because they didn’t investigate it.

They went down so many rabbit holes here and came up empty until Kathy Shank.

Do we know that this composit was actually investigated? Or are we assuming it was investigated? At this time I do not trust the investigation.

 

[MassGuy]

Do we know that this composit was actually investigated? Or are we assuming it was investigated? At this time I do not trust the investigation.

Someone described this person to a sketch artist and police disseminated that image to the media. Then it would be a matter of following up on tips from people who claimed to have recognized that image as someone they knew.

We haven’t heard about the vast majority of people who were questioned in this case, so there’s no way of knowing where that particular sketch lead them.

 

[snooptroop88]

I can't help but wonder about the second composit sketch showing the young guy and the witness who testified that she saw a beautiful, young guy with puffy hair.
This guy seems to me to be someone who the girls might would want to meet at the bridge. IMO, this was not investigated by detectives. There is so much disregard end. IMO

But BB saw RA from 50 feet away, some estimate it's actually more than 100 feet away. The hat might have been mistaken for hair, OR RA's hair might have been a bit longer that day, which for him was certainly going to be a day remarkable from others. If you believe RA's BG (I do), he came armed to the teeth to that bridge and concealed his appearance. And pics of RA from earlier times that would be more reflective of his appearance at the time of the crime DO show someone with a much more youthful appearance, jmo. Clear smooth skin and bright eyes, he could be described as "boyish" looking by some.

I see the same person in all the sketches I've seen of BG, I see the same facial structure and features generally. What I've wondered is if the BB "pre-crime" sketch doesn't show a disgusting murderer ebullient at the thought of committing his crime, he is "pumped" in anticipation. But then things go wrong and the SC sketch is "post," the deflated, defeated, terrified and grim RA staggering away from his horrors.

 

[snooptroop88]

Seeing this: "In the case of defendant Richard Allen, Judge Frances Gull said jurors will deliberate from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. daily, except Sundays, but jurors have the option to take more time if needed."

Understanding juror deliberations, what the timing of a verdict could mean

Jurors in the Delphi murders trial began deliberations Thursday.

www.wthr.com

So far, they're not taking "more time," right? I'm interpreting that as an indication that we may be looking at a guilty verdict, although others might interpret that differently. The P's case was relatively straightforward and probably wouldn't require "more time" to decipher and debate.

 

[oviedo]

I can't help but wonder about the second composit sketch showing the young guy and the witness who testified that she saw a beautiful, young guy with puffy hair.
This guy seems to me to be someone who the girls might would want to meet at the bridge. IMO, this was not investigated by detectives. There is so much disregard end. IMO

Then why didn’t this person come forward ? He didn’t the only persons who claimed he was there was the killer RA
JMO

 

[pillywiggin]

I don’t want to interrupt the conversation, but I do want to take a minute to thank all of the posters in this thread. With my work schedule, I never would have been able to keep up with the daily trial events without you all. I appreciate the posts about what is happening in the courtroom and the explanations of evidence. There is a lot I would not have understood without the explanations by posters here. The discussion has really helped me to see the evidence and judge’s decisions from both sides. Thank you all.

 

[TexLil]

Jurors have left the courthouse in #Delphi. No verdict today in the Delphi murders trial of Richard Allen. #wthr

https://twitter.com/x/status/1855045631863046595

 

[m00c0w]

Do we know that this composit was actually investigated? Or are we assuming it was investigated? At this time I do not trust the investigation.

How does one investigate a sketch of a person?

From what we know, police:
- Got tower dumps and identified the users of all phones present on the tower dumps
- Got a dump of Libby’s phone and looked for relevant messages that she might be meeting with someone
- Investigated the only catfish-type person she was allegedly in contact with about meeting up that day, put a massive amount of money and time into that investigation and turned up zero relevant leads (because KAK is a compulsive liar and an idiot)
- Actually put a bunch of pedos in prison as a result of that last thing

Seems to me like they did what they were supposed to and would have jumped at the chance to pin the murders on any of those predators.

JMO

 

[Diddian]

It looks that way to me too. Except that large one. Which unfortunately makes me think he used it for some reason to hold down his victim. I hate even typing that. Those girls went through absolute hell.
Jmo

Yes, that it what that large one extending along Libby's outstretched arm looks like to me too. Like he wasn't certain she was dead and wanted to make sure she couldn't get back up.

Beyond that, I don't know. Early on, some who'd seen the scene believed there were signs of a perpetrator's "signature" (Ives said there were several things - 3 or 4 - that an investigator might want a picture of, presumably as evidence) and I wonder whether the branches/limbs and their placement had something to do with a need or fantasy that is RA's in particular. Maybe some kind of "display" for his enjoyment or relief or as a sign of his power over them, even in death.

ETA: If so, then I hope the time soon comes when RA can be reminded that LG took a video (with audio) of him and that nearly last act of hers was a key piece of evidence which likely motivated him to come forward for an interview and which ultimately resulted in his capture, prosecution, and conviction. And AW's body under all those branches hid that phone for investigators to find it.

 

[MassGuy]

How does one investigate a sketch of a person?

From what we know, police:
- Got tower dumps and identified the users of all phones present on the tower dumps
- Got a dump of Libby’s phone and looked for relevant messages that she might be meeting with someone
- Investigated the only catfish-type person she was allegedly in contact with about meeting up that day, put a massive amount of money and time into that investigation and turned up zero relevant leads (because KAK is a compulsive liar and an idiot)
- Actually put a bunch of pedos in prison as a result of that last thing

Seems to me like they did what they were supposed to and would have jumped at the chance to pin the murders on any of those predators.

JMO

That last line is precisely why the notion that RA was "railroaded," is complete garbage.

They would have loved to have been able to make a connection between KK and BG, or even RL for that matter. They wasted years chasing down tips and potential suspects and weren't able to get anywhere because of the simple fact that there just wasn't anything there. You have to be able to put those people at the crime scene.

How they got to Allen was completely organic. They saw that statement saying he was there, followed up with him, developed probable cause, served a search warrant, and ultimately had enough to arrest him.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Should Richard Allen be found not guilty on all the charges, he can stand on the courthouse steps afterwards and declare “I did do it, ha ha,”and yet he cannot be tried again for the SAME CHARGES.

This is due to the Constitutional clause of Double Jeopardy.

IANAL, so I’m open to correction, but I believe that if there exists some OTHER charge regarding this case that he is not currently charged with, he can be charged on that. Let’s pretend it’s something like theft of their clothing, or something else of that ilk that is true, but I doubt was bothered with in light of the kidnapping and murders.

I THINK I have that correctly, but will say JMO in case I misinterpreted.

Double Jeopardy Clause - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ETA: just checked with my boyfriend, who is a lawyer and teaches Constitutional Law (and with whom I should have checked first, of course).

He says the above is accurate, but explained something else could happen DURING the trial and is called “Jeopardy attaches.” Something to do with the prosecution bringing in something that the judge already forbade.

Interesting re jeopardy attaches!

 

[twall]

How does one investigate a sketch of a person?

From what we know, police:
- Got tower dumps and identified the users of all phones present on the tower dumps
- Got a dump of Libby’s phone and looked for relevant messages that she might be meeting with someone
- Investigated the only catfish-type person she was allegedly in contact with about meeting up that day, put a massive amount of money and time into that investigation and turned up zero relevant leads (because KAK is a compulsive liar and an idiot)
- Actually put a bunch of pedos in prison as a result of that last thing

Seems to me like they did what they were supposed to and would have jumped at the chance to pin the murders on any of those predators.

JMO

Who else went to prison as a result of the KAK investigation?

 

[BUF]

A pretty decent listen that “may” answer some questions