GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[gremlin444]

Yeah I'm trying to see it from both sides. The D would need a tape, no guard is going to admit they threatened an inmate's family. Did the warden say the videos from the prison had audio or not, I can't recall. Moo.

Only the handheld camcorder used to record when they were moving him outside his cell had audio. None of the in-cell cameras in the prison have audio.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This discussion is dedicated to the trial of Richard Allen as the accused in the murders of Abby and Libby. While most WSers are concentrating on trial discussion and anxiously awaiting a verdict, over 30 posts had to be removed because someone decided they wanted to talk about something else.

The next member(s) to totally derail this discussion with posts about KAK or any other individual (SODDI) will be placed on a Time Out of not less than 2 days.

Please post accordingly.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The point is he did described what he was wearing that day.

Yes, and RA remembered what he was wearing on a Monday 5+ years ago. Jeans, hoodie, jacket blue or black, possibly a face covering. On a 50+ degree untypical warm Feb day??? Oddly overdressed as compared to Abby & Libby.

RA knew he'd been seen in 2022 on video and by the group of girls so he couldn't lie to LE, that would have sent the antennas waving sky high. He told bits of truth because he needed to know just what LE knew at that point.

Did RA know LE knew about SC passing him on N300? She got a look at him from starting at a moving 20 feet to 2-3 feet as she passed by him as she stated during her testimony at trial where she repeatedly emphasized muddy AND bloody much to the chagrin of Baldwin on cross. Hidden True Crime Link

JMO

 

[getthefax]

Depends on how broad you want to make "public"....the avid crime followers that were convinced RA was guilty before the trial even began won't be happy. People that know very little probably will move on in life. People in Indiana might be sad the state didn't find the "real" killer and I use the term "real" very loosely.

y. T

The case you have referenced is good law. In theory, Allen charges are not allowed in Indiana. The judge may, however, instruct them to read their jury instructions carefully and reconsider. Counting votes would be a no-no. It puts pressure on the holdouts.

Lewis v. State

Lewis v. State - 424 N.E.2d 107

law.justia.com

https://scholarworks.uark.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1161&context=alr

thanks for always providing such helpful, legal information @AugustWest

 

[detectivewannab]

Come on @Salah11 hang in there, the State has got this. The jury is doing their due diligence, but I still firmly believe it will be a Guilty verdict.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

MOO

I am Thankful the jury is going over everything. When you go step by step the prosecution got him.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

They didn't do height analysis because the experts told them the margin for error was too great so therefore not accurate. That film was analyzed by FBI techs and NASA, trying to glean anything reliable that they could. MO

Also, we found out from the trial that Libby’s video was not as straightforward as we all were probably thinking.
It flipped upside down at times, BG was farther back, things like that.

 

[sunshineray]

No. My point is, had Dulin asked him in 2017 what he was wearing and managed to put two and two together they would have had him in for questioning days after the murders happened and probably found a lot more evidence.

That to me is a lot of spilt milk. The time is solid with what RA said to DD back in 2017 (the time he was there and who he saw, saw him) and later with the descriptions he gave of what he was wearing and doing on the bridge (confirmed by the Libby's BG video and the witness who saw him on the bridge exactly where he placed himself) IMO, there is no reasonable doubt there. The RA confirms it all again and again and again with his motive, his actions and his remorse. LE got the right guy, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT AJMO

 

[Tealgrove]

That’s what I think ie. Libby tried to make a run for it. And, thus made RA furious.

He lost control. Libby ran. She ruined it for him. It was all Libby’s fault. His fantasy destroyed.

In his mind, it was all Libby’s fault. That’s why she took the brunt of it. He took it out on her.

MOO

 

[getthefax]

Because that is when they were getting ready to leave and walking to the car to get in Kelsi's car to go to the trails.

Libby unplugged her phone from Kelsi's car at 1:48 p.m. and Kelsi drove past Hoosier Harvest store at 1:49 p.m.

Yes. Adds to timeline.

 

[Megnut]

That to me is a lot of spilt milk. The time is solid with what RA said to DD back in 2017 (the time he was there and who he saw, saw him) and later with the descriptions he gave of what he was wearing and doing on the bridge (confirmed by the Libby's BG video and the witness who saw him on the bridge exactly where he placed himself) IMO, there is no reasonable doubt there. The RA confirms it all again and again and again with his motive, his actions and his remorse. LE got the right guy, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT AJMO

All this.

I do want to qualify one thing though. Remorse. I'm not sure he's capable of that.

I'll give him this instead -- MEmorse.

He only cares about what impacts HIM.

JMO

 

[NoeticSoul]

I am Thankful the jury is going over everything. When you go step by step the prosecution got him.

The fact that RA himself provided the who, what, when, where, and why during his many many confessions, hopefully that helps the jury while combing over the evidence. imo

 

[Davemac1]

That to me is a lot of spilt milk. The time is solid with what RA said to DD back in 2017 (the time he was there and who he saw, saw him) and later with the descriptions he gave of what he was wearing and doing on the bridge (confirmed by the Libby's BG video and the witness who saw him on the bridge exactly where he placed himself) IMO, there is no reasonable doubt there. The RA confirms it all again and again and again with his motive, his actions and his remorse. LE got the right guy, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT AJMO

I'm not saying I don't believe he did it.
Just that the case would have been far far stronger ( phone records,neighbours sightings,internet searches prior to the crime..etc) but for some very poor police work imo. That's before you even consider he may well have carried out something similar in the years since for all we know?
He could well get away with this. And the police will be as much to blame as anyone.

 

[Momofthreeboys]

Also, we found out from the trial that Libby’s video was not as straightforward as we all were probably thinking.
It flipped upside down at times, BG was farther back, things like that.

I think that was the thing I was most disappointed in. the fact that they blew it up so so far and might have filled in missing pixels. Also the length of that bridge especially if RA is at one end and the girls were near the other end and how long it would take to catch up to the girls.

 

[sunshineray]

All this.

I do want to qualify one thing though. Remorse. I'm not sure he's capable of that.

I'll give him this instead -- MEmorse.

He only cares about what impacts HIM.

JMO

I agree Megnut. It always circles back to him. MO

 

[adot0902]

No disrespect, but I'm fairly certain that is something they will wait to discuss after a verdict is reached, if at all. I don't appreciate veiled insinuations that the jury is out talking a media plan, there is absolutely no indication of that. They've endured weeks of emotional and difficult testimony, separated from their families and lives basically, doing a job that not many could or would do.

They deserve our gratitude and appreciation regardless of the Verdict, because without jurors the Justice System does not work. Period.

#Justice4Abby&Libby

JMO

Having been on a jury, as an alternate, unless you've been on a jury for a horrific crime (mine was an assault on a child by a non relative) you don't understand how close they get. I wasn't being disrespectful I was speaking from experience about protecting one another and making a plan for all their safety. I would if I was in this case, and I can definitely see the jury I was on making sure one girl in particular was protected. Thankfully ours wasn't a popular case with media attention but there were definitely people on the jury "The Moms" would have had conversations with during deliberation. Just my 2 cents as a juror.

Edit: I agree my first post was not worded correctly, I was more so hinting at avoiding the media or only talking about specific things like we voted guilty, no comment. I should have been more clear.

 

[steeltowngirl]

He lost control. Libby ran. She ruined it for him. It was all Libby’s fault. His fantasy destroyed.

In his mind, it was all Libby’s fault. That’s why she took the brunt of it. He took it out on her.

MOO

And he later learned that Libby also had taken a photo and audio of him. Small wonder he only said he was sorry for killing Abby.

jmo

 

[detectivewannab]

You're right, thanks. I just find it so hard to fathom why Superintendent Carter sent the FBI packing! And I may have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone venture a theory as to why.

Ego

 

[MassGuy]

Ego

Honestly, that’s top of my list. You don’t get better by removing an organization like that.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not saying I don't believe he did it.
Just that the case would have been far far stronger ( phone records,neighbours sightings,internet searches prior to the crime..etc) but for some very poor police work imo. That's before you even consider he may well have carried out something similar in the years since for all we know?
He could well get away with this. And the police will be as much to blame as anyone.

It's not uncommon for their to be mistakes during an investigation especially with tens of thousands of tips and lasting years. I think if RA's tip had been found fairly soon after and his arrest happened then, LE would have been accused of a rush to judgement at trial. MO

 

[MiniMoo]

Well, I wouldn’t say “multiple” people, but at least two and they had to kill Abby because they weren’t going to leave a witness. I’m only saying that although the injury to her neck was a violent and deadly act, Libby’s was over kill, IMO. Her multiple stab wounds were deep and repetitive and there was uncontrollable rage behind that weapon to leave those brutal wounds compared to Abby’s. I do suspect both were SA in some way. <modsnip> IMO

Am wondering how the perpetrator who would have likely held a sharp weapon in one hand and a gun in the other controlled Abby while frantically slashing Libby in a frenzy to unalive her. Also, he would had to have to pulled Libby's head back holding that knife and gun.

No scream was heard from either girl and sound carries really well on that trail.

Let's say the perpetrator decided to target Abby first.

With Abby, her body was clean with minimal blood, no defense wounds or blunt trauma to the head and one gash to the side of her neck.

So, how then did he control Libby?

Even if she chose not to run she could still have screamed as soon as Abby was the focus point.

Most importantly, how is it Libby had no blood up her arms or down her legs nor down the front of her if she stepped in her own blood, sat down and lent on a tree for support. Other than her hands, most of the blood found on her is shown to go upward from the neck area through her scalp, hair and head - this actually defies the law of gravity.

JMO MOO JMT