GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

[Tortoise]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>




At 1:15 p.m. jury instructions began.

Judge Gull says the alternate jurors will be in the deliberation room, be engaged but will not participate.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 18 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with closing arguments from both prosecution and defense. Jury will decide the fate of suspect Richard Allen.

wishtv.com

 

[Salah11]

Certainly is an interesting case when one considers what the State put forward as facts and what the judge refused to allow.... mooo. Not directed at you in particular Girl, but if he is found guilty a lot of people will say it doesn't mean he did the crime, just as much as being found not guilty could mean to others that it doesn't mean he didn't. To a great many people, it will only mean the State didn't prove he did, Bard. No matter what comes back, many folks are likely to feel justice wasn't done as a result of the police work in the case. Mooo.

Edited for clarity.

In my honest opinion as long as the family of the victims are happy if he is found guilty the rest of the background noise doesn’t matter.

It’s about justice for Abby and Libby’s families and getting RA locked up for life.

 

[Tealgrove]

Watching football on his tablet...or reading his Bible?

I wonder if he still has his tablet now that he’s at Cass County? I kinda thought that was special for him at Westville.

I’m probably wrong but wondering how things have changed for the better since that long awaited move?

 

[Salah11]

I wonder if he still has his tablet now that he’s at Cass County? I kinda thought that was special for him at Westville.

I’m probably wrong but wondering how things have changed for the better since that long awaited move?

Wasn’t it said last week at the trial before it was disallowed that he was still throwing tantrums and being abusive towards staff?

Surely that kind of behaviour gets you punished in some form in jail?

 

[fcavanaugh]

What resources did the FBI have on the case 4 years later?

I suspect it wasn't much.

IMO they would have been instrumental in assisting local LE and ISP after the misfiled RA tip was found in 2022, especially with regard to interviewing/interrogating Allen as well as with their digital forensics resources and expertise analyzing Allen’s phone(s).

IMHOO

 

[Megnut]

Why did RA tell DD he was there until 3:30?

The answer, IMO: he's just not smart.

And it shows.

It was over at 3:30.... so as long as he was "gone" by then, who would know?

He didn't know the juveniles and BB and Libby triangulated him.

He didn't know SC would stick the pin in the end time and create the pyramid.

Didn't know about Libby's phone at all. The timestamps, the video, the audio, the movement, the elevation, the lack of movement...

The girls' bodies were found on the 14th... I daresay, in 2017, only RA knew they were dead by 3:30 on 2/13. I think he felt safe -- he even adjusted his time from 1-3 to 1:30-3:30 iirc during his brief conversation with DD. A sprinkling of truth in the lie...

Important to remember (credit where credit is due, all credit to Libby for filming it and Abby for hiding it) that, without the video, potentially the girls could have been abducted from anywhere within the park, parking lots included, and at any time after drop off. Later, even without the video, Libby's phone would still tell a compelling story, steps, elevation, cessation) but RA didn't know that, didn't know LE would know that.

It is my opinion that RA didn't even consider that the girls had a phone or he would have sent it into the creek (not because of a video he didn't know about but to delay discovery of the crime because of it).

So why didn't he lie about what time he was there? He lied about not seeing the girls, so why not lie about the time too? Maybe it's just what he does. Lies a little, truths a little because somehow it works and people believe him. Life hack.

His comment, "it's not me if ..." is really quite illuminating. In how he thinks. In his brand of logic. Splitting hairs. It's me if I can go home. (Yes, I was there; yes, I was dressed like that; yes, I was on the bridge.) But no, it's not me if it has anything to do with those girls I never met.

Never met? He was there at the same time time as the long-haired babysitter, but I'm guessing it's safe to say he never met her either. It feels like a distancing lie to me. I saw them, I didn't meeeeeet them, therefore, when I say I didn't meet them, I'm (technically) not lying. Liar's wordsmithing.

At the time of that parking lot interview, RA knew he had to be truthful enough in order not to draw hot fire.

Calculated. In a way that made sense to him.

And it worked.

JMO

 

[Davemac1]

Gull disallowed third party culpability as a theory. You are asking the defense to offer evidence of something the judge told them was inadmissible.

As far as the hearing you have mentioned, remember that hearing was conducted on the State's motion, not the defense's. Attorneys don't raise issues outside of the specific reasons that a hearing is conducted. We can't bring up any issue we desire at a hearing. Further, the defense wasn't required to offer any and all evidence of third-party culpability they had. And requiring witnesses to attend a hearing under subpoena for limited utility isn't a good strategy.

Agreed.
They are more a diversion and deflection than a defense. They really haven't served him well

 

[Deleted member 229974]

In my honest opinion as long as the family of the victims are happy if he is found guilty the rest of the background noise doesn’t matter.

It’s about justice for Abby and Libby’s families and getting RA locked up for life.

I wonder what the families are thinking about the evidence presented in the trial.

 

[Davemac1]

Why did RA tell DD he was there until 3:30?

The answer, IMO: he's just not smart.

And it shows.

It was over at 3:30.... so as long as he was "gone" by then, who would know?

He didn't know the juveniles and BB and Libby triangulated him.

He didn't know SC would stick the pin in the end time and create the pyramid.

Didn't know about Libby's phone at all. The timestamps, the video, the audio, the movement, the elevation, the lack of movement...

The girls' bodies were found on the 14th... I daresay, in 2017, only RA knew they were dead by 3:30 on 2/13. I think he felt safe -- he even adjusted his time from 1-3 to 1:30-3:30 iirc during his brief conversation with DD. A sprinkling of truth in the lie...

Important to remember (credit where credit is due, all credit to Libby for filming it and Abby for hiding it) that, without the video, potentially the girls could have been abducted from anywhere within the park, parking lots included, and at any time after drop off. Later, even without the video, Libby's phone would still tell a compelling story, steps, elevation, cessation) but RA didn't know that, didn't know LE would know that.

It is my opinion that RA didn't even consider that the girls had a phone or he would have sent it into the creek (not because of a video he didn't know about but to delay discovery of the crime because of it).

So why didn't he lie about what time he was there? He lied about not seeing the girls, so why not lie about the time too? Maybe it's just what he does. Lies a little, truths a little because somehow it works and people believe him. Life hack.

His comment, "it's not me if ..." is really quite illuminating. In how he thinks. In his brand of logic. Splitting hairs. It's me if I can go home. (Yes, I was there; yes, I was dressed like that; yes, I was on the bridge.) But no, it's not me if it has anything to do with those girls I never met.

Never met? He was there at the same time time as the long-haired babysitter, but I'm guessing it's safe to say he never met her either. It feels like a distancing lie to me. I saw them, I didn't meeeeeet them, therefore, when I say I didn't meet them, I'm (technically) not lying. Liar's wordsmithing.

At the time of that parking lot interview, RA knew he had to be truthful enough in order not to draw hot fire.

Calculated. In a way that made sense to him.

And it worked.

JMO

Totally agree with that part.
'A sprinkling of truth within the lie.'
There's more of it in that interview in my opinion.

"Could've been my black jacket. Or maybe my blue one?"
"I was wearing tennis shoes I think. But I do own a pair of military style boots. Could've been them. Not sure if they still fitted?"
"I keep a hat in my pocket"
I am starting to think this was the very start of his confessions of sorts. He'd been telling himself for so long it wasn't him even though he knew it was.
"If the girls took that photo then it wasn't me"
Over time he'd managed to train his brain it wasn't him even when the facts were staring him in the face

 

[sunshineray]

For all we know, someone passed the youtuber a coffee order... I'm sure if JG had any issues with the D passing a note to a member of the gallery she'd have made it infinitely clear. <modsnip> I don't think it actually matters. Moo.

It was reported in MM IIRC. Maybe JG didn't see it happen? We'll never know for sure what it was will we?

 

[Trebor5591]

Carter sent everyone home and asked them to return their work materials.

Yeah, but why? Because to me, sending the FBI home really wasn't the right thing to do, IMO.

 

[Trebor5591]

Because a defense is allowed to change ideas and theories as a case matures. New discovery offers new ideas and leads in a case. Taking a snapshot of the case a month before trial will show a completely different picture of the totality of available options and which are feasible than one several months prior.

Why didn't the state produce any FBI witnesses in support of their case? Probably for the same reason the defense didn't do so at the evidentiary hearing. Because it wasn't helpful to their case.

Maybe the FBI didn't think Allen was the murderer? Which is why they were asked by Superintendent Carter to leave the case. JMO

 

[Warwick7]

Interesting. I would just rewrite them in my hotel room every evening from memory to help me think. Then I would compare notes from memory against notes from trial. Would help me see what stood out to me. Moo.

Seeing the Judge expects all notes to be turned in at the end if each day, and then shreaded or burned at the conclusion of the trial, having written notes in your private room is a fine line most jurors wouldn't want to cross. M00

 

[INfisherman]

Maybe the FBI didn't think Allen was the murderer? Which is why they were asked by Superintendent Carter to leave the case. JMO

The FBI left prior to RA ever being on LE radar. Up until then, he’d only given a statement to DD. ~6 months later the statement was found by KS, who noted the surname & street name were transposed. Once that was reported to her superiors, the focus quickly switched to RA.

JMO

 

[AugustWest]

Yeah, but why? Because to me, sending the FBI home really wasn't the right thing to do, IMO.

I agree. I don't know why. Not important now. IMO

 

[Salah11]

I wonder what the families are thinking about the evidence presented in the trial.

I am guessing likely wishing they hadn’t taken so long to nail him as he was in their sights within days if not for the miscommunications.

But it doesn’t change the fact that he admits he was out there and dressed like BG. He also has never claimed to have seen anybody else out on the bridge.

IMO

 

[INfisherman]

I agree. I don't know why. Not important now. IMO

Bodies of dead horses piling up everywhere today, still with no representation.

 

[cherrybier]

And to boot, they had a couple youtubers sitting in the defense seats and one note that we know of (probably more, IMO) was passed from defense to said youtuber during trial. Violation of gag order?

Do you have a link for this by a MSM source?

TIA

 

[Willow Knight]

After over 4 1/2 years. The following year is when the tip was found. I’m curious how long the FBI should have remained on the case for investigative purposes?

JMO

I was trying to find the date FBI left the investigation, was it in 2022 or 2021? Do you know?

 

[INfisherman]

I was trying to find the date FBI left the investigation, was it in 2022 or 2021? Do you know?

Carter testified it was Aug, 2021 IIRC.

ETA let me find a link to make sure.