GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Megnut]

Had Libby not recorded Richard Allen that day, her phone would still have recorded steps, the elevation change, 2:32. But it wouldn't have shown her starting point, in fact it might have appeared that the abduction occurred at the point of the elevation change. It wouldn't have memorialized 2:13. No video. No bridge. No gun being racked. No conversation. No record of Richard Allen. No man in jeans with a Carhartt jacket.

Without that image, would SC have ever come forward? She was obviously impacted and overwhelmed with the sight of Richard Allen, who it turns out WAS covered in mud and blood, and I think tried hard to push it out of her mind, afraid in her own ways.

The three girls would have remembered communicating with Libby, leaving the bridge shortly before Libby and Abby arrived. They would have remembered seeing a man, who walked with purpose, his head down, mouth masked. BB would have remembered seeing Abby and Libby and also a man, who had what turns out to be a hat (giving the wrong appearance of hair) (full head of hair implies youth but turn out she wasn't seeing hair at all).

Without Libby's video, there would only be sketches. Would RA EVER have come forward? The witnesses all saw the same person but as we know they all saw him slightly differently, as witnesses do. But without that "trail" photo, I don't think RA would have come forward.

We now know that the video of his car was such that it was impossible to get a license plate number, probably impossible to determine make and model. It was only after seeing the actual car that LL was able to match it due to the novel wheels.

No video. A cartridge but no gun. Some witnesses but not much overlap.

He might never have been caught.

Libby's video (the trail pic) brought him out of hiding, and ultimately convicted him.

Hoping now it puts him away for life.

JMO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Yes.
In their first request they were asking for a witness to come forward and did not want to reveal the still photo was from a video from LGs phone.

But did they say trail cam or did we just assume? It’s been a long 7 yrs

 

[INfisherman]

But did they say trail cam or did we just assume? It’s been a long 7 yrs

Not OP you’re asking but I’ve not seen it reported from where the photo originated until Feb. 22, 2017, when they released the DTH audio. Not disagreeing claim about trial cam by any means, just simply not seeing it stated in 3-4 articles I’ve read.

Nice timeline provide by an ABC affiliate out of Indy, WRTV (Ch. 6). Each event has a linked article:

Delphi Timeline

Jumping off the subject concerning DD - he may have simply been contacted & asked to follow up on tips (to assist the investigators_ & never was informed about the picture available.

ETA JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

But did they say trail cam or did we just assume? It’s been a long 7 yrs

I'm a more recent member of WS, but I did read every single thread of Abby and Libby before I contributed (it took me over a year, reading for hours daily), and my memory is that it was theorised as being from a trail cam on the threads, and everyone was floored when it was announced that it was from Libby's phone. All the discussion before then had revolved around hunting, deer hides and trail cams, so I think everyone had accepted it as a foregone conclusion that a trail cam had caught this guy.

That it was actually one of the victims deliberately filming the person who would attack her only moments later was completely out of left field.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Not OP you’re asking but I’ve not seen it reported from where the photo originated until Feb. 22, 2017, when they released the DTH audio. Not disagreeing claim about trial cam by any means, just simply not seeing it stated in 3-4 articles I’ve read.

Nice timeline provide by an ABC affiliate out of Indy, WRTV (Ch. 6). Each event has a linked article:

Delphi Timeline

Jumping off the subject concerning DD - he may have simply been contacted & asked to follow up on tips (to assist the investigators_ & never was informed about the picture available.

ETA JMO

Delphi Homicide Investigation​

www.in.gov

On Wednesday, February 15th, law enforcement officers distributed a photograph of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail. The photograph appears to depict a white male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie (from link)

Per ISP The photo was released 2/15/2017- just haven’t seen anything specific that it was a trail cam

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I'm a more recent member of WS, but I did read every single thread of Abby and Libby before I contributed (it took me over a year, reading for hours daily), and my memory is that it was theorised as being from a trail cam on the threads, and everyone was floored when it was announced that it was from Libby's phone. All the discussion before then had revolved around hunting, deer hides and trail cams, so I think everyone had accepted it as a foregone conclusion that a trail cam had caught this guy.

That it was actually one of the victims deliberately filming the person who would attack her only moments later was completely out of left field.

MOO

I think the assumption was it had to be a trail cam- how else would they have had the picture- IIRC

 

[Boxer]

But did they say trail cam or did we just assume? It’s been a long 7 yrs

MOO the original request IIRC said trail cam; I was watching this from the evening they were "missing."
MOO the problem is that different articles are in different news archives. Above is as close as I can get to the original right now.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

MOO the original request IIRC said trail cam; I was watching this from the evening they were "missing."
MOO the problem is that different articles are in different news archives. Above is as close as I can get to the original right now.

I know I assumed it was- just couldn’t remember why- thanks

 

[snooptroop88]

Okay, I'm following along on this discussion about what the context was with this image at the time RA would have spoken with Dulin, and then again in 2022 when he spoke with LE. Here's my cynical view of this, PURE SPECULATION, I have NO idea if this actually occurred.

I just viewed clippings from that time range/Feb 16 2017. These clippings never reveal where that image came from. The clips I have don't specify. That's interesting. By 2022, I'm assuming everyone knew where the image came from.

So RA pipes up in 2022, I believe, with it not being him "if" the image came from the girls' camera. (Bizarre statement no matter of context, imo) And here's one reason I'm thinking RA may have given this bizarre response.

Back when Dulin interviewed him, there was a mountain of tips flooding in with LE. Dulin's notes are just that, they're notes. Every single item discussed may not be in those notes. Did Dulin ask about the image and did RA say, "Oh yeah, that's me" ?? And this never made it into the notes, but it stayed in RA's head, but RA doesn't know it never made the notes?? And Dulin just doesn't remember it because he doesn't remember what Richard Allen Whiteman looked like, either? OR alternatively, RA doesn't remember if Dulin asked about this photo or what RA's response was, and RA's trying to pre-emptively "un-do" any damage-- you know, just in case RA said before it was him in that photo. And being a lying murderer, this is jmo a detail RA might well have overlooked. Considering these scenarios, to me, the idea that Dulin would have asked about the image and RA said oh yeah, that's me, and Dulin ignored it-- highly unlikely. BUT the idea that RA can't remember five years later IF Dulin asked him-- HMM, perhaps possible. But just noting, both of these hypothetical scenarios would imply RA really had in all likelihood overlooked the phone at the CS. I know a lot of people on here believe that, but I don't, so I'm not buying into these hypotheticals, at least for now.

PURE speculation. I mean, if it never made the notes, it didn't happen, basically, for all intents and purposes. But I can't help but wonder because THAT response of RA makes an eerie and disturbing kind of "sense" in the context of these hypothetical scenarios. Regardless, it was a bizarre response in ANY context, so...

 

[katydid23]

I still find it unsettling that experts weren't employed to determine the height of the man in the picture, $10,000. seems like money well spent. Of course, moo

IDK. I've heard that the testing can be a couple of inches off in either direction. So maybe they were concerned that the expert would say he was possibly 5'7---then what? Is the defense going to seize that info to rule out their client?

I don't think it was about the money --it was about the potential outcome. The defense could have done that test as well, since they were so convinced the witnesses were describing a taller guy. They didn't do so either. Probably for same reason.

 

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[k-mac]

Okay, I'm following along on this discussion about what the context was with this image at the time RA would have spoken with Dulin, and then again in 2022 when he spoke with LE. Here's my cynical view of this, PURE SPECULATION, I have NO idea if this actually occurred.

I just viewed clippings from that time range/Feb 16 2017. These clippings never reveal where that image came from. The clips I have don't specify. That's interesting. By 2022, I'm assuming everyone knew where the image came from.

So RA pipes up in 2022, I believe, with it not being him "if" the image came from the girls' camera. (Bizarre statement no matter of context, imo) And here's one reason I'm thinking RA may have given this bizarre response.

Back when Dulin interviewed him, there was a mountain of tips flooding in with LE. Dulin's notes are just that, they're notes. Every single item discussed may not be in those notes. Did Dulin ask about the image and did RA say, "Oh yeah, that's me" ?? And this never made it into the notes, but it stayed in RA's head, but RA doesn't know it never made the notes?? And Dulin just doesn't remember it because he doesn't remember what Richard Allen Whiteman looked like, either? OR alternatively, RA doesn't remember if Dulin asked about this photo or what RA's response was, and RA's trying to pre-emptively "un-do" any damage-- you know, just in case RA said before it was him in that photo. And being a lying murderer, this is jmo a detail RA might well have overlooked. Considering these scenarios, to me, the idea that Dulin would have asked about the image and RA said oh yeah, that's me, and Dulin ignored it-- highly unlikely. BUT the idea that RA can't remember five years later IF Dulin asked him-- HMM, perhaps possible. But just noting, both of these hypothetical scenarios would imply RA really had in all likelihood overlooked the phone at the CS. I know a lot of people on here believe that, but I don't, so I'm not buying into these hypotheticals, at least for now.

PURE speculation. I mean, if it never made the notes, it didn't happen, basically, for all intents and purposes. But I can't help but wonder because THAT response of RA makes an eerie and disturbing kind of "sense" in the context of these hypothetical scenarios. Regardless, it was a bizarre response in ANY context, so...

Just jumping off your post where it took me.
Whether RA thought it a trail cam or witness snap whatever, it must have freaked him out.
Because if there is 1 pic....how many more are there?????
Its a travesty lead investigators where not red flag alerted to his statement/ interview relevance...immediately.
The way DD packaged it must have been benign.
It doesn't matter who dropped the ball there. I find it in equal measures. The reporting LE and the lead investigator between them, it should have been HOT SIZZLING ACTION. That day.

IMO RA already freaked out about being exposed and his pic everywhere....possibly would have confessed immediately.

The problem with time is he had lost that deer in the head lights moment.
He was comfortable with the personal appearance changes he had made and the release of those sketches must have gave him a great sense of relief.
We have seen picture of him standing next to the sketch picture at the pub. (taken by his wife).
Brazen.

Hiding in plain sight.

moo

 

[k-mac]

IDK. I've heard that the testing can be a couple of inches off in either direction. So maybe they were concerned that the expert would say he was possibly 5'7---then what? Is the defense going to seize that info to rule out their client?

I don't think it was about the money --it was about the potential outcome. The defense could have done that test as well, since they were so convinced the witnesses were describing a taller guy. They didn't do so either. Probably for same reason.

Plus boots, runners, slides all add remove inches in height.
Bending, leaning forward can knock off 12 inches.
No way there could be any kind of accuracy from a walking persons gate to establish height.

moo

 

[Han]

Just jumping off your post where it took me.
Whether RA thought it a trail cam or witness snap whatever, it must have freaked him out.
Because if there is 1 pic....how many more are there?????
Its a travesty lead investigators where not red flag alerted to his statement/ interview relevance...immediately.
The way DD packaged it must have been benign.
It doesn't matter who dropped the ball there. I find it in equal measures. The reporting LE and the lead investigator between them, it should have been HOT SIZZLING ACTION. That day.

IMO RA already freaked out about being exposed and his pic everywhere....possibly would have confessed immediately.

The problem with time is he had lost that deer in the head lights moment.
He was comfortable with the personal appearance changes he had made and the release of those sketches must have gave him a great sense of relief.
We have seen picture of him standing next to the sketch picture at the pub. (taken by his wife).
Brazen.

Hiding in plain sight.

moo

Agree! Imagine seeing yourself in a photograph taken on the bridge THAT day. And the police want to talk to that person. He definitely wanted to know how LE got their hands on that and what else they had just as DC with ISP said in 2019.

It shows his calculating devious nature that he could show up for questioning, even in a parking lot, and play things so cool that the follow-up question on the lead sheet was to determine the identity of the three girls he says he saw.

Amazes me people can’t see this, but once seen it can’t be unseen.,

 

[New Penny]

I for one am curious if RA will make a statement at sentencing and if JG will allow cameras in the courtroom? Especially since the defense will not (I don’t think) have the opportunity to turn it into a spectacle. Or will he go down, forever silent?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[Han]

Had Libby not recorded Richard Allen that day, her phone would still have recorded steps, the elevation change, 2:32. But it wouldn't have shown her starting point, in fact it might have appeared that the abduction occurred at the point of the elevation change. It wouldn't have memorialized 2:13. No video. No bridge. No gun being racked. No conversation. No record of Richard Allen. No man in jeans with a Carhartt jacket.

Without that image, would SC have ever come forward? She was obviously impacted and overwhelmed with the sight of Richard Allen, who it turns out WAS covered in mud and blood, and I think tried hard to push it out of her mind, afraid in her own ways.

The three girls would have remembered communicating with Libby, leaving the bridge shortly before Libby and Abby arrived. They would have remembered seeing a man, who walked with purpose, his head down, mouth masked. BB would have remembered seeing Abby and Libby and also a man, who had what turns out to be a hat (giving the wrong appearance of hair) (full head of hair implies youth but turn out she wasn't seeing hair at all).

Without Libby's video, there would only be sketches. Would RA EVER have come forward? The witnesses all saw the same person but as we know they all saw him slightly differently, as witnesses do. But without that "trail" photo, I don't think RA would have come forward.

We now know that the video of his car was such that it was impossible to get a license plate number, probably impossible to determine make and model. It was only after seeing the actual car that LL was able to match it due to the novel wheels.

No video. A cartridge but no gun. Some witnesses but not much overlap.

He might never have been caught.

Libby's video (the trail pic) brought him out of hiding, and ultimately convicted him.

Hoping now it puts him away for life.

JMO

Agree completely. RA would not have come forward if not for Libby’s video which was first revealed as a single picture. Libby might have been alarmed but she wasn’t deterred from capturing all that evidence in only 43 seconds of video ultimately ensuring that LE could not only find the killer but the prosecution could get the conviction. The defense was powerless in the face of the truth.

 

[k-mac]

Agree! Imagine seeing yourself in a photograph taken on the bridge THAT day. And the police want to talk to that person. He definitely wanted to know how LE got their hands on that and what else they had just as DC with ISP said in 2019.

It shows his calculating devious nature that he could show up for questioning, even in a parking lot, and play things so cool that the follow-up question on the lead sheet was to determine the identity of the three girls he says he saw.

Amazes me people can’t see this, but once seen it can’t be unseen.,

yes, Yet another red flag in the very long list.

RA not wanting to step foot into a police station to speak to the cops...

 

[Han]

yes, Yet another red flag in the very long list.

RA not wanting to step foot into a police station to speak to the cops...

Best move he had made at that point but definitely a red flag. Sorry he escaped their attention for so long but I think somehow he managed not to arouse DD’s suspicion. Not sure how.

 

[snooptroop88]

Just jumping off your post where it took me.
Whether RA thought it a trail cam or witness snap whatever, it must have freaked him out.
Because if there is 1 pic....how many more are there?????
Its a travesty lead investigators where not red flag alerted to his statement/ interview relevance...immediately.
The way DD packaged it must have been benign.
It doesn't matter who dropped the ball there. I find it in equal measures. The reporting LE and the lead investigator between them, it should have been HOT SIZZLING ACTION. That day.

IMO RA already freaked out about being exposed and his pic everywhere....possibly would have confessed immediately.

The problem with time is he had lost that deer in the head lights moment.
He was comfortable with the personal appearance changes he had made and the release of those sketches must have gave him a great sense of relief.
We have seen picture of him standing next to the sketch picture at the pub. (taken by his wife).
Brazen.

Hiding in plain sight.

moo

I can't help but feel incredibly bad for some of the people involved in this, and here's why. We have the benefit of hindsight. And RA has the benefit of knowing answers to a lot of important questions, and since RA is a crafty and evidently incredibly disturbed murderer, those are likely answers we're never going to have. I went back into past threads and as of Feb 16, it looks like there was a great deal of confusion as to whether the image came from a trail cam or a witness camera on Feb 16. BG had been labeled I guess a poi, but already there was questioning as to whether he was actually a prime suspect. RA may have suspected he knew where the image came from.

Have always wondered why that phone was left there. Did RA just miss it? Or did he see that phone as LE saw it, wet and covered in dirt? Did he take his chances that it was damaged, but was there the nagging fear in his mind that the image may not have been a trail cam after all? We may never know, but agreed right now he may have been completely blindsided. Dulin didn't ask if RA had a gun, that we know of. And Dulin didn't ask if RA was the person in the image (that we know of, and I'd guess that's right). I would understand that at that time. Why would LE ask any individual at that juncture point-blank? The actual murderer hearing that question would probably rejoice, knowing hey, you wouldn't have to ask if you already knew, right? And I seriously believe RA would have said no. I still want to know more about how that interview came to be "misfiled," in much more detail, but I know I probably never will. To me, yes, it's frustrating, but just breathing a huge sigh of relief right now that RA has been caught by heroic Abby & Libby, always in our thoughts and memories. He's a murderer and 130 years is better than he deserves, jmo.

 

[k-mac]

I can't help but feel incredibly bad for some of the people involved in this, and here's why. We have the benefit of hindsight. And RA has the benefit of knowing answers to a lot of important questions, and since RA is a crafty and evidently incredibly disturbed murderer, those are likely answers we're never going to have. I went back into past threads and as of Feb 16, it looks like there was a great deal of confusion as to whether the image came from a trail cam or a witness camera on Feb 16. BG had been labeled I guess a poi, but already there was questioning as to whether he was actually a prime suspect. RA may have suspected he knew where the image came from.

Have always wondered why that phone was left there. Did RA just miss it? Or did he see that phone as LE saw it, wet and covered in dirt? Did he take his chances that it was damaged, but was there the nagging fear in his mind that the image may not have been a trail cam after all? We may never know, but agreed right now he may have been completely blindsided. Dulin didn't ask if RA had a gun, that we know of. And Dulin didn't ask if RA was the person in the image (that we know of, and I'd guess that's right). I would understand that at that time. Why would LE ask any individual at that juncture point-blank? The actual murderer hearing that question would probably rejoice, knowing hey, you wouldn't have to ask if you already knew, right? And I seriously believe RA would have said no. I still want to know more about how that interview came to be "misfiled," in much more detail, but I know I probably never will. To me, yes, it's frustrating, but just breathing a huge sigh of relief right now that RA has been caught by heroic Abby & Libby, always in our thoughts and memories. He's a murderer and 130 years is better than he deserves, jmo.

Yes it is a wonderful relief that he has faced justice.

its cathartic for us to ponder and look back and see the links now.
Think we are still shutting down the true believers though.
Facts matter...and we getting them slowly the removal of the gag order will bring consolidation of those loose ends together.
But if they never come, Im satisfied with what they got on him.
It was more than enough xx