GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[k-mac]

Ok- maybe things are different in your state -my experience says that he might have done everything he could- and the lead still got buried- but my own opinion- we can agree to disagree

yeah of course
my point is, he had the information.
The key information. 2 days after the crime.
Went packed away in paperwork.....??????
why??
The dot to dots of bureaucracy and red tape shouldn't be at the expense of 2 murdered little girls.
DD should have been interviewed by the lead investigator THAT DAY.



NO excuses IMO

What if RA had of struck again?? He could have ..easily.
Thanks be to god that didn't happen.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

yeah of course
my point is, he had the information.
The key information. 2 days after the crime.
Went packed away in paperwork.....??????
why??
The dot to dots of bureaucracy and red tape shouldn't be at the expense of 2 murdered little girls.
DD should have been interviewed by the lead investigator THAT DAY.



NO excuses IMO

What if RA had of struck again?? He could have ..easily.
Thanks be to god that didn't happen.

I agree, and I blame the lead investigator personally- moo

 

[Han]

The “younger” one was from BB who saw RA on the 1st platform of the bridge. IMO the “older” sketch was from the woman who saw the muddy bloody man but I’m not sure. And I don’t know if the younger girls near
Freedom Bridge contributed in any way to the sketches. I’m not sure why I think I know this.

This is from Fox 59: McLeland argued that “the witnesses who assisted in the preparation of composite sketches of the Bridge Guy would testify that they did not see the person depicted in their sketch for a sufficient length of time to allow them to positively identify the defendant.”

Delphi murders: State wants to keep widely circulated composite sketches out of trial

Sorry to reply to my own post but this is a link to BB testimony:

Betsy Blair told the court that she saw two girls, who she later recognized from news reports as Abby and Libby. She also saw a man standing on a platform jutting out from the Monon High Bridge, about 50 feet from where she made her turn to head back toward the Freedom Bridge at the other end of the trail.

Blair said the Bridge Guy picture fit the man she saw that day.

Baldwin pressed in on her description noting that she’d told investigators that he was more boyish looking and average height. And Baldwin asked if the man had brown, poofy hair, as she’d initially said.

“That’s the description I gave to the person making the sketch,” Blair said.
Delphi murder trial, Day 4: Witnesses say they saw ‘Bridge Guy,’ but descriptions vary
Still looking for any information about the older sketch.

 

[Boxer]

@Harriet_Eva

The detective in charge missed several check points.

https://centerforimprovinginvestigations.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Crime-Scene-Investigative-Checklist-Clickable.pdf

 

[Deleted member 296739]

@Harriet_Eva

The detective in charge missed several check points.

https://centerforimprovinginvestigations.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Crime-Scene-Investigative-Checklist-Clickable.pdf

Would that check list apply if he was outside of the lead agency tasked with following up tips/leads and not investigating a crime scene? I honestly don’t know- DD corrected the name mistake and turned his notes to the investigators after the brief interview- I’m confused how it was marked cleared and misfiled again under the wrong name of the original tip sheet-

None of this impacts my beliefs around guilt or if RA=BG - jury found him guilty- that’s settled at this point

but it really is mind boggling that RA said he was on the bridge and saw 3 girls at the time of the murders - DD gave this information to investigators within days of the murder- and not only was it not followed up on, it was marked cleared by someone other than DD and misfiled by someone other than DD - I don’t know what DD’s mandate or scope was -

I have a hard time blaming him and with the oops, stuff happens, humans make mistakes, type explanations of LE investigators making that level of multiple errors that early in the investigation-

As I see it had investigators done their job early there mightn’t have been 5 more years of time, money, resources spent while generating thousands of leads and tips and boxes and boxes of files for later - hopefully lessons were learned- all my own opinion

 

[Boxer]

Would that check list apply if he was outside of the lead agency tasked with following up tips/leads and not investigating a crime scene? I honestly don’t know- DD corrected the name mistake and turned his notes to the investigators after the brief interview- I’m confused how it was marked cleared and misfiled again under the wrong name of the original tip sheet-

None of this impacts my beliefs around guilt or if RA=BG - jury found him guilty- that’s settled at this point

but it really is mind boggling that RA said he was on the bridge and saw 3 girls at the time of the murders - DD gave this information to investigators within days of the murder- and not only was it not followed up on, it was marked cleared by someone other than DD and misfiled by someone other than DD - I don’t know what DD’s mandate or scope was -

I have a hard time blaming him and with the oops, stuff happens, humans make mistakes, type explanations of LE investigators making that level of multiple errors that early in the investigation-

As I see it had investigators done their job early there mightn’t have been 5 more years of time, money, resources spent while generating thousands of leads and tips and boxes and boxes of files for later - hopefully lessons were learned- all my own opinion

The buck stops with the detective in charge.
That's why all the misleading blame chaff has been deployed: the FBI, a clerk, a dispatcher.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

The buck stops with the detective in charge.
That's why all the misleading blame chaff has been deployed: the FBI, a clerk, a dispatcher.

So you’re saying not with DD who followed up on the tip sheet,

but buck stops with the lead detective/ investigator with ISP or local police - whomever had lead of the entire investigation-

which sure wasn't DD-

If that’s the case, I wholeheartedly agree- moo

 

[Bitta]

I still find it unsettling that experts weren't employed to determine the height of the man in the picture, $10,000. seems like money well spent. Of course, moo

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I still find it unsettling that experts weren't employed to determine the height of the man in the picture, $10,000. seems like money well spent. Of course, moo

Same here, if they could have at the beginning and followed up on leads, and it only $10,000 that could possibly have saved them the extra 5+ yrs of investigation - moo

 

[Boxer]

So you’re saying not with DD who followed up on the tip sheet,

but buck stops with the lead detective/ investigator with ISP or local police - whomever had lead of the entire investigation-

which sure wasn't DD-

If that’s the case, I wholeheartedly agree- moo

That is what I mean, the lead detective of the team - no one else has the authority to "clear" a "witness" near the scene on their crime map.
MOO that the drtective in charge did not personally look and clear the original reports coming on paper from the field was the problem.


I do believe DD did have a general common sense reponsiibilty to have followed up when there was never any mention of the man he interviewed in the following years.

 

[gremlin444]

I still find it unsettling that experts weren't employed to determine the height of the man in the picture, $10,000. seems like money well spent. Of course, moo

When experts told the state there would be a 4" total margin of error for a height determination, the state decided it wasn't worth it because it wouldn't gain them solid enough information.

Same with the hair in Abby's hand....the testing they were able to do had them very confident it was Kelsi's hair, esp given it was Kelsi's sweatshirt....instead they had to spend more money to get the same answer at a time when everyone is having a fit about how expensive this case was.

 

[Arkay]

I understand that DD followed up the lead sheet given to him and handed if of to PD detective- he was auxiliary support and follow up as I understand it (more in the wildlife officer bucket than beat cop) and whomever he handed it off to and whomever marked the lead as cleared and whomever are responsible for keeping the name mistakenly listed are possibly more culpable than DD - as I understand the chain of events- my own recollection- moo

yeah of course
my point is, he had the information.
The key information. 2 days after the crime.
Went packed away in paperwork.....??????
why??
The dot to dots of bureaucracy and red tape shouldn't be at the expense of 2 murdered little girls.
DD should have been interviewed by the lead investigator THAT DAY.



NO excuses IMO

What if RA had of struck again?? He could have ..easily.
Thanks be to god that didn't happen.

I agree with both points, because overlooking this clue led to five years in the wilderness, in which yes, God forbid, RA could have felt that terrible urge again and killed some more.

There’s blame to be had, certainly, but JMO I’m not certain of where the greatest culpability lies.

This double tragedy has been emotionally wounding for most of us. At this point I’m trying to make myself face forward now.

I’m looking ahead to December 20th and I hope JG gives RA the max allowable.

Once sentence has been passed, I am eager to hear from any jurors who wish to come forward, even if it’s with the blurred faces. I’m just curious about how they came to their decision; if there were holdouts, what evidence was most persuasive, what was most dismissive, etc.

I’m allowing myself some restorative time before I plunge back into BK Indiana, which I’ve avoided for awhile as the RA trial was ramping up.

JMO at this time.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I agree with both points, because overlooking this clue led to five years in the wilderness, in which yes, God forbid, RA could have felt that terrible urge again and killed some more.

There’s blame to be had, certainly, but JMO I’m not certain of where the greatest culpability lies.

This double tragedy has been emotionally wounding for most of us. At this point I’m trying to make myself face forward now.

I’m looking ahead to December 20th and I hope JG gives RA the max allowable.

Once sentence has been passed, I am eager to hear from any jurors who wish to come forward, even if it’s with the blurred faces. I’m just curious about how they came to their decision, if there were holdouts, what evidence was most persuasive, what was most dismissive, etc.

I’m allowing myself some restorative time before I plunge back into BK Indiana, which I’ve avoided for awhile as the RA trial was ramping up.

JMO at this time.

Well said

 

[somequestions]

I think it's no bigger risk than having friends, co-workers, customers, or family asking him 'why haven't you gone to the police and cleared yourself, they've put your picture in the appeal'. I've heard that his wife did tell him to make contact with the police, but I haven't seen it confirmed. I think he thought he'd be recognized by people who knew him and he had no other avenue at that time.

This kind of crime - the RISK of something not going to plan, being caught, broad daylight and good weather bringing people outdoors to a popular attraction, two girls to control, the girls screaming, is HUGE. As the convicted perpetrator, we can comfortably surmise he is that risk-taker who indeed came forward.

I think he thought it was a trail cam. The girls are not in the image published. He had his story prepared about watching the fish and his stocks. Libby's recording was done in such a way as to not let him know she was recording. The phone was successfully hidden by Abby, but if he'd known about it he wouldn't have left it there, imo. He didn't know about the phone in February 2017, imo.

If that photo was taken by the girls it's not me.
In other words, if that photo was taken by a trail cam, it's me.

Do you think Richard Allen would have said it was him if the still picture it was taken by a trail cam because he would assume the trail cam would have video of everyone who got onto the Monon High Bridge and because at the time the still picture of bridge guy was released on February 15th, 2017, police had not yet said the time the still picture was taken by the trail cam(later to be identified as Liberty German's phone). Did the police state the time of the still picture on February 15th, 2017 when it was released to the public?

I think the killer would be well aware if the time is the same time as the killer knows that the kidnapping took place, whether it was a trail cam or one of the girls phones that recorded the still picture. The reason is that would still place him at the scene of the crime at the same time the crime supposedly took place.

If the investigators interviewing people early on had asked people out in the area that day if they actually walked on the Monon High Bridge and about what time, I think it would have drastically reduced their POI list. I would have thought on February 15th at that time in the investigation, LE would not have released the time the still picture was taken for this very reason(to narrow it down not just to who walked out onto the Monon High Bridge, but when they walked out onto the Monon High Bridge). The police know on February 15th the approximate time the kidnapping took place.

This case should have been solved the very first week.

 

[somequestions]

Right, they said it came from a trail cam at first.

Did the police actually say it came from a trail cam?

If the trail cam was continually recording, wouldn't it have recorded Richard Allen when he was on platform 1 watching the fish and his movement afterwards? What I mean is this is if Richard Allen thought the image released on February 15th, 2017 came from a trail cam.

 

[ClearAhead]

Did the police actually say it came from a trail cam?

If the trail cam was continually recording, wouldn't it have recorded Richard Allen when he was on platform 1 watching the fish and his movement afterwards? What I mean is this is if Richard Allen thought the image released on February 15th, 2017 came from a trail cam.

No they didn’t that I can find.

Posted Feb 21, 2017

https://fox59.com/news/organizer-says-cameras-could-be-coming-to-trail-where-delphi-teens-were-last-seen-alive/

“The murders of 13-year-old Abby Williams and 14-year-old Libby German could prompt some security changes along the Monon High Bridge Trail, part of the Delphi Historic Trail system where the girls were last seen alive.

Currently there are no security cameras on the trail…..”

 

[ClearAhead]

Do you think Richard Allen would have said it was him if the still picture it was taken by a trail cam because he would assume the trail cam would have video of everyone who got onto the Monon High Bridge and because at the time the still picture of bridge guy was released on February 15th, 2017, police had not yet said the time the still picture was taken by the trail cam(later to be identified as Liberty German's phone). Did the police state the time of the still picture on February 15th, 2017 when it was released to the public?

I think the killer would be well aware if the time is the same time as the killer knows that the kidnapping took place, whether it was a trail cam or one of the girls phones that recorded the still picture. The reason is that would still place him at the scene of the crime at the same time the crime supposedly took place.

If the investigators interviewing people early on had asked people out in the area that day if they actually walked on the Monon High Bridge and about what time, I think it would have drastically reduced their POI list. I would have thought on February 15th at that time in the investigation, LE would not have released the time the still picture was taken for this very reason(to narrow it down not just to who walked out onto the Monon High Bridge, but when they walked out onto the Monon High Bridge). The police know on February 15th the approximate time the kidnapping took place.

This case should have been solved the very first week.

Bolded to reply.

The time the still picture was taken was definitely not released with it on Feb 15, 2017.

 

[Boxer]

Did the police actually say it came from a trail cam?

If the trail cam was continually recording, wouldn't it have recorded Richard Allen when he was on platform 1 watching the fish and his movement afterwards? What I mean is this is if Richard Allen thought the image released on February 15th, 2017 came from a trail cam.

Yes.
In their first request they were asking for a witness to come forward and did not want to reveal the still photo was from a video from LGs phone.

 

[Megnut]

Did the police actually say it came from a trail cam?

If the trail cam was continually recording, wouldn't it have recorded Richard Allen when he was on platform 1 watching the fish and his movement afterwards? What I mean is this is if Richard Allen thought the image released on February 15th, 2017 came from a trail cam.

Only Richard Allen knew they were abducted from the bridge. He didn't know anyone else knew (would come to know) that. So IMO he had no problem coming forward.

Just like, later, he felt comfortable telling LE his gun had never been in the area (he knew he hadn't shot anyone).

I don't think he was worried about the witnesses either because he tried to be forgettable. It never occurred to him that they'd be TIME witnesses, cemented by the time/location of Libby's recording, trapping HIM on the bridge at 2:13.

 JMO

 

[Boxer]

Police ask for assistance in identifying man seen walking on trail where Delphi teens went missing

Update: Police released a photo of a man taken on the Delphi Historic Trails on Feb. 13, around the time Abigail Williams and Liberty German were walking. Investigators want to talk with him about …

fox59.com