GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Tortoise]

In this comprehensive timeline it states that ISP released the photo at 7:00 p.m. on February 15, 2017.

https://fox59.com/news/timeline-disappearance-and-deaths-of-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/

I'm just going by the time of the post in thread 1. IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

It was posted at 5.49pm, which I'm presuming is my local time, being in the UK, as local time to me is how the post times show up on all posts at WS for me, and so being as I am 5 hours ahead of Delphi I subtracted 5 hours.

I suppose it's possible the article was updated after it was first posted here, so it didn't contain the photo in the first version.

 

[shonyakay]

TIMELINE | Disappearance and deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams in Delphi
by: FOX59 Web

Posted: Feb 16, 2017 / 12:41 PM EST
Updated: Apr 22, 2019 / 01:08 PM EDT

Wednesday, Feb. 15, 2017

8 a.m. Autopsies are conducted in Terre Haute on the bodies discovered during Tuesday’s search. Local authorities convene a meeting after the autopsies are complete.

10 a.m. Sgt. Kim Riley with Indiana State Police provides a brief update on the investigation. He says the autopsies are complete but declines to confirm the identities or discuss a suspect or person of interest in the case. He says police have received “hundreds of tips” from the community.

Riley advises parents to keep a close eye on their children and monitor their whereabouts.

3 p.m. Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department hold a news conference confirming that the bodies found Tuesday are those of Liberty and Abigail. They say the case is being investigated as a double homicide.

They say they don’t believe there’s any immediate danger to the community.

7 p.m. Indiana State Police release a photo of a man reportedly walking on the trail around the time of the girls’ disappearance. Police say they want to talk to the individual but stop short of calling him a suspect.

https://fox59.com/news/timeline-disappearance-and-deaths-of-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/

 

[Tortoise]

In this comprehensive timeline it states that ISP released the photo at 7:00 p.m. on February 15, 2017.

https://fox59.com/news/timeline-disappearance-and-deaths-of-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams-in-delphi/

Yes, further to my last post, they must have updated the article to include the photo after it was posted here.

You are correct, I've just found the first post here at 7.04pm, discussing the release of the photo.

IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

 

[shonyakay]

nb. I'm not sure if it has been confirmed by LE that he went into the station, or if he just called in his info. So I'm treating it as a claim.

Snipped:
"Shank was a volunteer on the investigation who found tip #74, a tip lead sheet marked as Richard Allen Whiteman. That tip was a self-reported tip from Allen stating he had been on the bridge between 1:30 and 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, wearing clothing similar to Bridge Guy. Shank recognized Whiteman as a street in Delphi. When she read the file, it said, “Richard Allen, who lives on Whiteman Drive ….” She took the tip to Sheriff Tony Liggett, who initiated an investigation into Allen."

GUILTY - Carroll County Comet

Today was the day. In a quiet town where folks meet at the local bar for a nightcap and share family stories over biscuits and gravy at the local diner, two girls were brutally murdered. “These things don’t happen around here,” Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland told jurors in his closing...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

The question I have is, is Tip #74 the self reported tip from RA on February 16, 2017? Or is this related to RA's talk with Dan Dulin on February 18, 2017?

 

[Tortoise]

Snipped:
"Shank was a volunteer on the investigation who found tip #74, a tip lead sheet marked as Richard Allen Whiteman. That tip was a self-reported tip from Allen stating he had been on the bridge between 1:30 and 3:30 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, wearing clothing similar to Bridge Guy. Shank recognized Whiteman as a street in Delphi. When she read the file, it said, “Richard Allen, who lives on Whiteman Drive ….” She took the tip to Sheriff Tony Liggett, who initiated an investigation into Allen."

GUILTY - Carroll County Comet

Today was the day. In a quiet town where folks meet at the local bar for a nightcap and share family stories over biscuits and gravy at the local diner, two girls were brutally murdered. “These things don’t happen around here,” Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland told jurors in his closing...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

The question I have is, is Tip #74 the self reported tip from RA on February 16, 2017? Or is this related to RA's talk with Dan Dulin on February 18, 2017?

does this answer your question? -

"She told the jury that when investigators were moving their headquarters she came across some handwritten tips, one of them said a “Richard Allen Whiteman” had “self-reported being on the trails and girls had seem him at the same time.”

That tip was dated Feb. 16, 2017.

Shank said she pulled the written tip about Allen being interviewed in 2017 and changed the file name to “Richard Allen.” She told the jury she made this discovery on Sept. 21, 2022."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

 

[shonyakay]

does this answer your question? -

"She told the jury that when investigators were moving their headquarters she came across some handwritten tips, one of them said a “Richard Allen Whiteman” had “self-reported being on the trails and girls had seem him at the same time.”

That tip was dated Feb. 16, 2017.

Shank said she pulled the written tip about Allen being interviewed in 2017 and changed the file name to “Richard Allen.” She told the jury she made this discovery on Sept. 21, 2022."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

Thanks. I must have forgotten. I looked back at my post and mentioned the 16th previously.

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215' GUILTY - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215

RA's own words done him in along with Libby's video.

 

[Jade]

Personally of all the things that RA did that I find incriminating, this isn’t one of them- I don’t like police cars in my driveway, neighbors gossip -

I don’t like going downtown to police headquarters, people want to know what you’re doing down (or what you did…or what your family member did…)

Fostering justice involved teens provided ample experiences of both- and I handled as much by phone as possible - at one point a realtor who was showing a house across the street, fudged a bit and told the family it was “fine” because we had LE in the family and it really was a safe neighborhood after the questioned the marked car in our driveway…

Thinking about it, I’d probably want to meet in a neutral location, especially in a smaller town, and it would look like a friendly encounter vs tabloid fodder …

I think at times our beliefs about guilt become the lenses through which we see everything, and in hindsight everything points to our conclusions- and some actions which might be actually normal/ typical for lots of people, regardless of guilt of a crime, are interpreted as signs of guilt … moo

I’m opposite. I’d walk across broken glass to help those families. I’m in a smallish town.

I don’t care if neighbors gossip anyway but especially not under the circumstance. Any curious neighbors would be informed of my witness status which I trust would be spread about to any others inquiring.

I’ve never heard a stranger thing than more worried about neighbors seeing an officers car at my home than concern for Abby and Libby especially if I had been involved in legitimate noble reasons that provide me knowledge of LE’s roles beyond the gossip worthy.

What a horrible breach of trust for a realtor to lie to their client.

I was with LE the other day taking one a hat for helping at an event. Never crossed my mind for a second to worry what others would think about my car and myself being seen at PD!

I would have not a minutes hesitation going proudly and openly to the SO to impart my important information.

Actually my first thought was I would want to meet DD at the park and see if the location helped with recall.

Imo, RA was attempting to subvert the accurate depiction of his intentions of the visit to the park and confuse the details by choosing a public casual setting.

The whole town is wrought up volunteering to tromp through the woods most of the night, the families in sleepless vigil, the horrible outcome and then someone be holding back cus they worried about gossip to the point it causes the tip to be lost becouse of thier insistence of an unsuitable location to carry out the business?

There is no question it was RA’s most incriminating act it’s what sunk him in the end.


All imo

 

[shonyakay]

does this answer your question? -

"She told the jury that when investigators were moving their headquarters she came across some handwritten tips, one of them said a “Richard Allen Whiteman” had “self-reported being on the trails and girls had seem him at the same time.”

That tip was dated Feb. 16, 2017.

Shank said she pulled the written tip about Allen being interviewed in 2017 and changed the file name to “Richard Allen.” She told the jury she made this discovery on Sept. 21, 2022."

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

When Liggett and Mullin were talking to RA in October 2022, they mention tip #74.

RA does say something to the effect that he went down the day after or so when they asked about the tip.

I also want to know everything that tip contained. I have read several things about it, for instance RA admitted to wearing similar clothing as BG and he gave the time of 1:30 to 3:30 p.m. It appears that he mentioned the group of girls' too. So it seems very similar to what he told DD two days later.

IIRC, DD mentioned RA first said the time of 1 p.m. to 3 p.m. to him and later moved it to 1:30 to 3:30. Probably because this later time is what he gave in his February 16th tip.

Was RA worried about the SC sighting and that is why he was trying to state he left earlier to DD originally? I think so.

 

[shonyakay]

M00 he would have never contacted LE if his wife hadn't said, "That's you! You probably have info they could use. You need to go talk to them asap." M00

Surely KA would have seen the 2019 presser where they were still asking about the man in the photo/video. I wonder how all of that went down in the Allen household.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I’m opposite. I’d walk across broken glass to help those families. I’m in a smallish town.

I don’t care if neighbors gossip anyway but especially not under the circumstance. Any curious neighbors would be informed of my witness status which I trust would be spread about to any others inquiring.

I’ve never heard a stranger thing than more worried about neighbors seeing an officers car at my home than concern for Abby and Libby especially if I had been involved in legitimate noble reasons that provide me knowledge of LE’s roles beyond the gossip worthy.

What a horrible breach of trust for a realtor to lie to their client.

I was with LE the other day taking one a hat for helping at an event. Never crossed my mind for a second to worry what others would think about my car and myself being seen at PD!

I would have not a minutes hesitation going proudly and openly to the SO to impart my important information.

Actually my first thought was I would want to meet DD at the park and see if the location helped with recall.

Imo, RA was attempting to subvert the accurate depiction of his intentions of the visit to the park and confuse the details by choosing a public casual setting.

The whole town is wrought up volunteering to tromp through the woods most of the night, the families in sleepless vigil, the horrible outcome and then someone be holding back cus they worried about gossip to the point it causes the tip to be lost becouse of thier insistence of an unsuitable location to carry out the business?

There is no question it was RA’s most incriminating act it’s what sunk him in the end.


All imo

I’m not saying that I wouldn’t help someone, just that I can see why someone might not want to go to a police station or have officers at their house - it’s possible that our contexts are very different,

So in isolation, with no other information, the fact that someone didn’t want to go to the station, and/or have LE to the house, isn’t in and of itself incriminating or indicative of criminal behavior to me …

This has nothing to do with one’s willingness or lack there of to help solve a crime or assist grieving families… all moo

 

[TallCoolOne]

I’m not saying that I wouldn’t help someone, just that I can see why someone might not want to go to a police station or have officers at their house - it’s possible that our contexts are very different,

So in isolation, with no other information, the fact that someone didn’t want to go to the station, and/or have LE to the house, isn’t in and of itself incriminating or indicative of criminal behavior to me …

This has nothing to do with one’s willingness or lack there of to help solve a crime or assist grieving families… all moo

No, it's just indicative of their priorities.......

 

[Deleted member 296739]

No, it's just indicative of their priorities.......

Ok, we just see things differently

 

[Oculus]

I'm happy for those who find this being the end of the case. (Of course, a Guilty verdict does mean that
theoretically)

 

[schooling]

I'm happy for those who find this being the end of the case. (Of course, a Guilty verdict does mean that
theoretically)

I am beyond a reasonable doubt happy. We got a child murdering monster off of the streets. The community is at ease. The family of two little girls can start to pick up the pieces of their lives, though theyll never be whole. And I can say all of this with confidence now that he's had his day in court.

And as heinous and awful as his crimes are, I hope he finds the peace that he was obviously looking and crying out (imo) for. Evidence by his countless confessions to his family (who did not want to listen), lawyers (who did not want to listen) and anyone who would actually listen to him.

 

[Peppery]

I was at my local CVS this morning and as I was browsing around saw that they actually sell box cutters. I checked their website and it was the same one that I saw:

View attachment 545704

I wonder if this was in fact the murder weapon.

Westcott Ceramic Utility Box Cutter - CVS Pharmacy

Shop Westcott Ceramic Utility Box Cutter at CVS Pharmacy and enjoy free shipping on all eligible orders.

www.cvs.com

Just wanted to say I own this one, got mine on Amazon, and I doubt it’s the murder weapon. The blade is ceramic and not nearly as sharp as a metal blade I’ve used. Moo

 

[Boxer]

Supervisor receives inventory,
MOO is a constant user of box cutters.

 

[Davemac1]

I'm coming in late to this, but wanted to offer a possible scenario.

I recall it being mentioned that DD added a follow up question that said: Who are the 3 girls?

RA claimed those were the only people he saw on the trail. I don't think he told DD what he was wearing, that came at the interview once the tip sheet was found in 2022. So I wonder if someone reviewing the tip sheets saw that question for follow up and they knew who the 3 girls were so they then marked the tip "cleared" because that was the follow up noted.

If that tip was marked cleared by accident due to knowing who the 3 girls were very early on, then it's possible that whoever marked it cleared didn't have an idea of what the timeline was for Abby and Libby and it never even occured to them that RA could be the killer. It was viewed for follow up to locate the 3 girls and since they came forward right away, there was nothing to follow up on.

Not saying someone shouldn't have been double and triple checking these tips, but with 1000s coming in, I am not sure what process they had to go over and back over and so on. I do not think it was intentional and it really is unfortunate.

I'm pretty sure he didn't. And it's the one of things that's puzzling me the most.
Why in his 2022 interview did he not say he was wearing, I don't know, a red Jacket., grey joggers and a pair of blue trainers??..and no hat?

Had he forgotten if he'd told Dullin back in the first meeting what he said he was wearing??
Should think his head was pretty muddled back in 2017
It all falls back to Libby's video. She got him good and proper.

They scooby doo'd him right up.
" I would've got away with it if it wasn't for those darn kids!!!"

 

[FrostedGlass]

Details that only the killer would know> How can that be?

Fact Sheet | False Confessions

• According to the Innocence Project, 25% of wrongful convictions overturned by DNA evidence involve a false confession and many of those false confessions actually contained details that match the crime-details that were not made to the public.

 

[Megnut]

Ah, found what I've been looking for.

Re. Richard Allen's Oct 13th 2022 interview -

This is from Lawyer Lee's notes from watching the interview video in court,

timestamp 12.11
"So when he sort of described how he came to go to the police and it started out with 'they asked anyone who was there in the park that day when the girls were missing, when they were abducted, if you were there come in and talk'. He said 'I told my wife and she said "well they want to talk to everybody"' so he went to the Sheriff's station and voluntarily put his name and information down. So a couple of days later Officer Dulan calls him and at the time, RA is in his car..."

What he doesn't mention of course is the photo and appeal they had released:

15th Feb 2017

ISP: "We're going to track them down"

Indiana State Police released the photo below on Wednesday. They say this man was on the Delphi Historic Trail around the time that Abby and Libby were there. They want to speak to him about what he may have seen.

WRTV​

15 February 2017 ·
DO YOU RECOGNIZE THIS MAN?
Indiana State Police say he was walking on the Delphi Historic Trail around the same time as Abigail Williams and Liberty German were there on Monday.
If you can identify the person in this photo or were parked in the lot contact the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2345 or Indiana State Police at (765) 567-2125.

Bbm

"They want to speak to him about what he may have seen."

LE knew. They knew what the man in the image "may have seen" because, since Libby was ahead, filming Abby and the man behind her, the man was without a doubt seeing Abby and Libby.

It was clever wording by LE because it of course sounds like they want anyone who was there to come forward including this particular individual in case he has any information to add. But they already knew this individual saw the girls.

How no one in LE was briefed to BOLO for the perp himself who might insert himself in the investigation from the start.

He dodged notice, first, by meeting on the fly and, second, claiming he hadn't seen the girls. Shoeboxed and forgotten.

The innocent Ricky rhetoric has finally quieted down, his presumption of innocence in the rearview, and once he's sentenced, it'll be good riddance.

JMO

 

[Han]

How no one in LE was briefed to BOLO for the perp himself who might insert himself in the investigation from the start.

This is something most of us wonder. Why DD marked the lead sheet to follow-up on the identities of the 3 girls RA said he saw instead of a red flag, this could be/is our man. Of course this is an internal matter; we’ve probably heard the end of it.