GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #216

[Davemac1]

Excellent synthesis!

On Point 12 -- he said he thought about it a lot... I can't help but wonder if he meant he thought about why he called the tipline. Without it, would he ever have been arrested?

He says KA told him to.

I'm going to read been his lines. Were these his choices? Either call in as a way to convince KA 'there's nothing to see here, would I call if I had anything to hide?' OR not call and have her question what I might be hiding?

She must have been standing right next to him. Standing right over him. Because why wouldn't he just say he would call or he did call. I can almost picture her dialing the number for him...

It's really Libby's phone that convicts Jim.

Without her phone, there's no confirmation for where the abduction started, for who was following them, for what was used to control them (a gun), for the elevation change and creek crossing, or the 2:32 which memorialized Abby last movement. (One thing to consider is that, whatever was happening to her, how ever it was happening, she was frozen -- surely in fear -- but also quiet possibly to give the phone hidden.) We really don't know what time they were attacked and then succumbed to their injuries, but it was well within his self-reported 1 to 3, corrected to 1:30 to 3:30, and fits with his final sighting at 3:57.

I wonder if LE was able to review CCTV into the evening. Because I wonder if RA walked home (because he was muddy and bloody) and retrieved his car after dark. At that point CCTV might only show headlights, no detail. Still, walking home would account for a clean car and no CCTV of his car around 4 pm.

I don't think Richard Allen had issue with describing what he was wearing (or identifying himself initially as the man in the photo) because he knew he'd been seen but he would have been 100% that only Abby and Libby knew he was the murderer and he made sure they were dead. Never could he have imagined, at the time he called in the tip, the photo came from Libby and was a frame from a video. He thought he was safe, as just a visitor to the trails, dressed as he was. Some mystery killer came along after he left. (Which is of course an angle the Defense tried to draw but failed at because of Libby's phone, which remained on but showed no steps, no movement, and was found under a victim. There's just no way to build out a story to account elsewise for the raw data.)

I bet he kicked himself a lot for calling himself in. And wouldn't have if he'd known where that photo came from. He didn't know his victims (with the evidence on the phone) called in their own tip.

JMO

Any idea why he didn't change his clothing description in 2022?
As you said. He knew by then that the man in the blue jacket and jeans was the main suspect. To my knowledge he never told Dulin what he was wearing in the 2017 grocery store car park interview.

He changed his timeline after they found the lost tip. Why not his clothes?

 

[Tortoise]

Any idea why he didn't change his clothing description in 2022?
As you said. He knew by then that the man in the blue jacket and jeans was the main suspect. To my knowledge he never told Dulin what he was wearing in the 2017 grocery store car park interview.

He changed his timeline after they found the lost tip. Why not his clothes?

I bet he couldn't remember what he'd said.

I don't think I'd even remember what I'd been wearing, unless I'd seen constant reminders of my photo online of course.

 

[Salah11]

Any idea why he didn't change his clothing description in 2022?
As you said. He knew by then that the man in the blue jacket and jeans was the main suspect. To my knowledge he never told Dulin what he was wearing in the 2017 grocery store car park interview.

He changed his timeline after they found the lost tip. Why not his clothes?

Wouldn’t his wife of found it suspicious if he suddenly invented what he had worn that day?

 

[Megnut]

Any idea why he didn't change his clothing description in 2022?
As you said. He knew by then that the man in the blue jacket and jeans was the main suspect. To my knowledge he never told Dulin what he was wearing in the 2017 grocery store car park interview.

He changed his timeline after they found the lost tip. Why not his clothes?

It is baffling. Perhaps we'd know more if we could have heard his interviews. He might have been afraid to trip himself up more.

It seemed well-known that Libby had recorded "BG" but Richard Allen seems slow to accept that. You'd think he would have, if he had any doubt, worked out where he was on the bridge to arrive at the realization it could only have come from the girls' camera. I honestly don't know how he couldn't have known that but it appears, from what little we're privy to, that he had a serious blind spot in reasoning there.

Not a mental genius so maybe five years of hiding in plain sight, he'd adopted a version of events where he never went further than the first platform. Best I can guess, when LE confronted him with the photograph, he thought his response was a smart one. What's the saying? -- some people can't argue their way out of a paper bag.

Richard Allen got lucky. That the DD report got lost. IMO he would not have held up well in 2017 either. Detonate in 3 - 2 - 1....

It would have been a far more streamlined process too, more evidence to collect. Dumpster/landfill. The jacket. The boxcutter. Additional CCTV. Perhaps his phone.

Even without all that, the totality of evidence gathered from other sources convicts him. No one else could have done it. Not within that timeframe, not with that gun and blade, not from the end of the bridge, not with the otherwise inexplicable elevation change.

Richard Allen still has secrets. What happened between 2:14 and 2:28? How and why and when did Abby come to be dressed in Libby's clothes, how did Abby's clothes (and some of Libby's) end up in the creek, did he use restraints, what sexual gratification did he achieve, what words were exchanged, what were the girls' last words, how did he get home, when did he get home, whether he accounted for his bloody clothing and his replaced phone? And just what he meant by sex addiction. Real? Virtual? A CSAM history buried somewhere in hidden accounts? Lunch hours across from grade schools? These are secrets he'll take to his grave.

I hope we will have long since forgotten his name.

#WeRememberAbby&Libby

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

.... this new industry of promoting false-narratives that every other high-profile case is a far-reaching conspiracy against the defendant, is not only nonsensical when one stands back and sees it for the trend it has become, spilling over from social media onto the streets outside courts so that juries have to be shielded from it, it’s ignorant of the harm it brings to the victims’ families, and is hugely damaging to society, devaluing law enforcement and disrespecting the jury system.

Amazing post T

I'd just like to add - it is disappointing how many of the people doing this are attorneys who know better!

 

[mrjitty]

Snipped for focus

Agreed. IMO, this is precisely why Judge Gull chose to control her courtroom as she did.

Especially once a trusted consultant on Team D was caught red handed leaking the crime scene photos leading to a man's death. Contempt may not have been proven beyond reasonable doubt but the Judge is not a mug ...

MOO

 

[Tortoise]

Amazing post T

I'd just like to add - it is disappointing how many of the people doing this are attorneys who know better!

hear hear.

I was watching one of those channels and I thought poor guy's being really stitched up.

Until I started doing my own research halfway through the trial.

It's been a learning curve shall we say.

One who shall remain nameless, actually said after the verdicts, in all seriousness, 'I'm going to list the key factors that were probably the biggest influences on the jury...one of the biggest influences on the jury was (...drum roll...) what they did not hear'.

Straight up. Straight face and all.

 

[k-mac]

So the confessions might be false; the timeline might be wrong; the witnesses can be portrayed as inconsistent; lots of other people could resemble that video; there’s no direct physical proof BG was the actual killer anyway; people can have innocent reasons for changing their memories about where they were and when; there could be innocent reasons why there’s no record of his phone being present or active when his story demands such; that cartridge match may not be absolutely unique in all the world.

But nobody else in all the world has all those things pointing to them.

right.
The pro allen brigade want to cherry pick in isolation.
Its the collection of damning actions words time and witnesses......smoothly cohesive, all fit together.

When things are false, you factually can not get everything to sit together.
common sense exposes the truth.
Leaves no question about the guilt of this man.

Such a weight lifted, won't bring these beautiful girls back but their killer has been held to account.

 

[Boxer]

right.
The pro allen brigade want to cherry pick in isolation.
Its the collection of damning actions words time and witnesses......smoothly cohesive, all fit together.

When things are false, you factually can not get everything to sit together.
common sense exposes the truth.
Leaves no question about the guilt of this man.

Such a weight lifted, won't bring these beautiful girls back but their killer has been held to account.

Agree.
Instead of an alibi, let me confess then act crazy to try and undo it to prove I don't do crazy things -it was a losing strategy.

 

[k-mac]

Leverage and loopholes = Defence

I was surprised how many defence attys on youtube I have unsubbed to that I previously admired and respected during this case.
Every single one of them exposed their true 'talent' for propaganda opportunities.
Salivating over weaknesses they could find in the prosecution while grandstanding the brilliance of the defence in all its idiocy.
Then.... not have any decency to respect the guilty verdict in a court of law.


We have quite a few wonderful attys here at websleuths that have set the benchmark high!!

moo

 

[Davemac1]

It is baffling. Perhaps we'd know more if we could have heard his interviews. He might have been afraid to trip himself up more.

It seemed well-known that Libby had recorded "BG" but Richard Allen seems slow to accept that. You'd think he would have, if he had any doubt, worked out where he was on the bridge to arrive at the realization it could only have come from the girls' camera. I honestly don't know how he couldn't have known that but it appears, from what little we're privy to, that he had a serious blind spot in reasoning there.

Not a mental genius so maybe five years of hiding in plain sight, he'd adopted a version of events where he never went further than the first platform. Best I can guess, when LE confronted him with the photograph, he thought his response was a smart one. What's the saying? -- some people can't argue their way out of a paper bag.

Richard Allen got lucky. That the DD report got lost. IMO he would not have held up well in 2017 either. Detonate in 3 - 2 - 1....

It would have been a far more streamlined process too, more evidence to collect. Dumpster/landfill. The jacket. The boxcutter. Additional CCTV. Perhaps his phone.

Even without all that, the totality of evidence gathered from other sources convicts him. No one else could have done it. Not within that timeframe, not with that gun and blade, not from the end of the bridge, not with the otherwise inexplicable elevation change.

Richard Allen still has secrets. What happened between 2:14 and 2:28? How and why and when did Abby come to be dressed in Libby's clothes, how did Abby's clothes (and some of Libby's) end up in the creek, did he use restraints, what sexual gratification did he achieve, what words were exchanged, what were the girls' last words, how did he get home, when did he get home, whether he accounted for his bloody clothing and his replaced phone? And just what he meant by sex addiction. Real? Virtual? A CSAM history buried somewhere in hidden accounts? Lunch hours across from grade schools? These are secrets he'll take to his grave.

I hope we will have long since forgotten his name.

#WeRememberAbby&Libby

JMO

And that is the other baffling detail.
How did he miss the phone?
Surely one of the first things he would've asked them was to hand over their phones?
One theory I had was that Libby had two phones. A second that her family didn't know about?
She handed that second phone to Allen early in the attack and that satisfied him.
To support my theory. One of the photos of Abby on the bridge posted on social media was never found on Libby's phone. Was it taken on a second phone?
Also, the defense got themselves in a tizz about other unaccounted phones found in the area from the geofence data. I believe it's the basis of their odinist theory?
I think there were other phones in the vicinity. The aforementioned second phone owned by Libby and Allen's phone or phones that nobody knew about. You know the one that can be used to check stocks and shares but not register on a phone tower. The one he's got Kegan Kline on speed dial!

 

[shonyakay]

Any idea why he didn't change his clothing description in 2022?
As you said. He knew by then that the man in the blue jacket and jeans was the main suspect. To my knowledge he never told Dulin what he was wearing in the 2017 grocery store car park interview.

He changed his timeline after they found the lost tip. Why not his clothes?

In 2022, RA was evasive about his clothing. He said he wore either a black or blue jacket but says he thinks he wore a black one.

 

[Salah11]

And that is the other baffling detail.
How did he miss the phone?
Surely one of the first things he would've asked them was to hand over their phones?
One theory I had was that Libby had two phones. A second that her family didn't know about?
She handed that second phone to Allen early in the attack and that satisfied him.
To support my theory. One of the photos of Abby on the bridge posted on social media was never found on Libby's phone. Was it taken on a second phone?
Also, the defense got themselves in a tizz about other unaccounted phones found in the area from the geofence data. I believe it's the basis of their odinist theory?
I think there were other phones in the vicinity. The aforementioned second phone owned by Libby and Allen's phone or phones that nobody knew about. You know the one that can be used to check stocks and shares but not register on a phone tower. The one he's got Kegan Kline on speed dial!

It’s been explained why the photo was not on the camera roll. When you upload to Snapchat you upload it directly to their app. So it would never of been saved on the phone it went directly to the Snapchat server.

 

[Davemac1]

In 2022, RA was evasive about his clothing. He said he wore either a black or blue jacket but says he thinks he wore a black one.

He named 6 items of clothing he may have been wearing on the day.
And from that list, bridge guy was wearing 4 of them!

 

[ClearAhead]

And that is the other baffling detail.
How did he miss the phone?
Surely one of the first things he would've asked them was to hand over their phones?
One theory I had was that Libby had two phones. A second that her family didn't know about?
She handed that second phone to Allen early in the attack and that satisfied him.
To support my theory. One of the photos of Abby on the bridge posted on social media was never found on Libby's phone. Was it taken on a second phone?
Also, the defense got themselves in a tizz about other unaccounted phones found in the area from the geofence data. I believe it's the basis of their odinist theory?
I think there were other phones in the vicinity. The aforementioned second phone owned by Libby and Allen's phone or phones that nobody knew about. You know the one that can be used to check stocks and shares but not register on a phone tower. The one he's got Kegan Kline on speed dial!

Libby didn’t capture a smile-you’re-on-camera video of BG. According to GH, her distance was almost 70 feet away. When the enhanced video was shown in the courtroom BG was but a passing dot while the camera was moving upside down and right side up, suggesting Libby was covertly holding her cellphone with the video turned on in such a way BG was oblivious to anything aside from the evil thoughts in his head. Maybe Libby was acting nonchalant, just swinging her arm up and down enough to capture him on video, and considering the man we now know was RA was looking downward he woukdn’t notice. That distance, requiring expanding the image substantially, is also the reason it’s quite grainy.

Therefore IMO it’s quite possible RA didn’t notice anything. I really doubt she had two phones. JMO

 

[Peppery]

Who pays for his attorneys if he wants to appeal? Does he need to find someone to work pro bono or does the state continue to foot the bill?

 

[Megnut]

And that is the other baffling detail.
How did he miss the phone?
Surely one of the first things he would've asked them was to hand over their phones?
One theory I had was that Libby had two phones. A second that her family didn't know about?
She handed that second phone to Allen early in the attack and that satisfied him.
To support my theory. One of the photos of Abby on the bridge posted on social media was never found on Libby's phone. Was it taken on a second phone?
Also, the defense got themselves in a tizz about other unaccounted phones found in the area from the geofence data. I believe it's the basis of their odinist theory?
I think there were other phones in the vicinity. The aforementioned second phone owned by Libby and Allen's phone or phones that nobody knew about. You know the one that can be used to check stocks and shares but not register on a phone tower. The one he's got Kegan Kline on speed dial!

For a long time, I did think Libby might have had another phone. One that he took. It would add color to his statement that the photo couldn't be him if it came from their phone (if he left with it). And I long thought he must have had a burner phone too, on which to track her.

I think now that the Defense knew all along who the three phones numbers belonged to, just like the hair in Abby's hand. The Defense's own witnesses pretty well confirmed whose phones those were -- the one girl with her friend who crossed the bridge at like 3:30 or 4. And the older man with his camera. Or possibly even BW's. True to form, the Defense dialed up a conspiracy and then failed to deliver.

JMO

 

[k-mac]

And that is the other baffling detail.
How did he miss the phone?
Surely one of the first things he would've asked them was to hand over their phones?
One theory I had was that Libby had two phones. A second that her family didn't know about?
She handed that second phone to Allen early in the attack and that satisfied him.
To support my theory. One of the photos of Abby on the bridge posted on social media was never found on Libby's phone. Was it taken on a second phone?
Also, the defense got themselves in a tizz about other unaccounted phones found in the area from the geofence data. I believe it's the basis of their odinist theory?
I think there were other phones in the vicinity. The aforementioned second phone owned by Libby and Allen's phone or phones that nobody knew about. You know the one that can be used to check stocks and shares but not register on a phone tower. The one he's got Kegan Kline on speed dial!

Interesting concept Libby and 2 phones.
Couldn't rule it out or in.
But...
If RA did confiscate 1 phone off Libby, why wouldn't he assume Abby had 1 too.
She didnt, but he shoudnt have known that.

Which makes me doubt he took 1 and disposed it. I think he would have located the one under Abby if looking.

I personally think he didn't know there was a phone.
He totally would have taken it if he knew he had been captured on it.

He may have asked them if they had a phone and they both said no???

Considering there is no detectable DNA he must have kept physical contact to a minimum.
So I believe he assaulted/ detained them by visual nudity ( the missing sock?? )
and likely didn't pat them down persay which is how they kept the phone out of his vision.

just speculating, moo

 

[Peppery]

And that is the other baffling detail.
How did he miss the phone?
Surely one of the first things he would've asked them was to hand over their phones?
One theory I had was that Libby had two phones. A second that her family didn't know about?
She handed that second phone to Allen early in the attack and that satisfied him.
To support my theory. One of the photos of Abby on the bridge posted on social media was never found on Libby's phone. Was it taken on a second phone?
Also, the defense got themselves in a tizz about other unaccounted phones found in the area from the geofence data. I believe it's the basis of their odinist theory?
I think there were other phones in the vicinity. The aforementioned second phone owned by Libby and Allen's phone or phones that nobody knew about. You know the one that can be used to check stocks and shares but not register on a phone tower. The one he's got Kegan Kline on speed dial!

I have wondered if one of the girls had an old phone that was not connected to data, that maybe their parents didn’t know they were using. It’s what my tweens started off with around that time. It could be used to text, play music and games when connected to wifi, which even in 2017 was easily available. And there would not be a phone number associated with it in the geosearch.

 

[Megnut]

The Delphi Murders: Why Everyone Got the Delphi Trial Wrong

We discuss why many people seem to have been surprised by the verdict in the Delphi trial. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a t-shirt here:...

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