GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #217

[technicallymissing]

Apparently there was quite a delay between the jury coming to a decision and the verdict being read, with Kathy Allen being “out of town”, juror says they waited in the jury room for “so long”.

 

[INfisherman]

Juror has since been reading things posted online, is aware of the info regarding SODDI & says for her, it wouldn’t have made much of an impact. Says she trusts the decision to leave that out from trial since there was not a nexus.

She feels the right decision was made.

 

[INfisherman]

This juror specifically pointed out, unfortunately without mentioning who, that many YT content creators were reporting absolute inaccuracies about the trial.

 

[legalmomma]

continuing dialog from Delphi juror -
Judge Gull was a very impressive woman.

The Delphi Murders: First Person: A Juror: Part One

We interviewed a woman who served on the jury in the Delphi murders trial. We asked her about the experience, her impressions of the attorneys and the...

murdersheetpodcast.com

She did a very good job. Commands the room. After the trial they spent time with her and she was "very chill" not like you see her as a judge.

 

[Yemelyan]

My takeaway from these two episodes...it was all about the timeline. The juror describes the witness Voorhies as being a turning point, nail in the coffin moment. Because even if these witnesses did not describe BG with perfect accuracy, RA describes THEM - particularly the dark hair of Voorhies. @mrjitty has been hammering it home for us this whole time. RA has to be lying about the timing given his own description of the girls he saw.

I was also in tune with the fact that this particular juror seemed like one that might have been willing to accept some of the defense's explanations. She didn't find the bullet evidence that compelling. She may not have liked Rozzi's ego and antics, but she liked Baldwin and Auger. To me she even seemed willing to consider that RA may have been in psychosis when he confessed. But ultimately, the timeline played the key role.

 

[legalmomma]

The jury really did work hard on a timeline...placing sticky notes on a map and the evidence presented on the sticky note. Then removed the evidence that they did not think was credible.(my input)
------
Juror_Interview

first full day of deliberations, we again finished up the timeline. Then it was our foreman's idea to split into groups. It was groups of three, so we had four groups and each group had something they were working on.

Group went through the confessions on the sheets made by the suicide companion, so that wasn't my group. One group did all of the phone calls, and then another group, which was mine, did the confessions to Dr. Walla and Dr. Martin, along with noting all of the meds that he was on when they started and then when they're administered, things like that, and how they correspond with all of the different confessions that we have. I'm sure a lot of people can argue too that that doesn't matter, but a lot of us were truly considering maybe it was an act of psychosis that caused these confessions.

We were just at least allowing that to be a possibility.

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks for the notes guys. I'm just blown away by how meticulous and open minded these jurors were, and how they seriously considered every possibility. I'm impressed they were able to discount certain pieces of evidence, yet still get there based on other evidence. You don't have to believe everything, and they didn't.

 

[legalmomma]

Juror_Interview

The Delphi Murders: First Person: A Juror: Part One [Juror] (4:10 - 5:03) With the summons, I was really, it's weird when we got the postcard sent. I wish I could remember. It was pretty early on, I would say, like August-ish even. And I guess, because I'm sure you guys know the trial was suppose...

docs.google.com

to go back to the confession, one of my things that I had that stood out to me in a sense of thinking that he could be guilty is the mention of the van. Outside of that, I didn't put really any weight to anything else, although it is very eerie.

Looking back, I think like who would confess that many times that doesn't actually do that? I can't think of how that would ever happen. But again, it's really hard when you're asked to.

It's not just something that's no big deal if you get it wrong.

There's a lot of weight to it.

 

[arielilane]

Thank you to all who posted the juror summaries.
Just an amazing group of jurors, imo. Glad they got it right.

 

[Salah11]

So to sum up, basically everybody did a great job apart from the defence.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

Agree.

I'm guessing this was his first sexual attack and murder. If so, he'd be more prone to feeling shocked and upset (not guilty) so "undoing" behavior would be automatic. He may have instinctively felt that letting her get dressed would keep her distracted and stop her from making noise or trying to escape. He was trying to avoid leaving DNA evidence, so probably had her re-dress herself.

Doesn't "undoing" behavior often (not always) occur after the victim is deceased?
JMO. Perhaps this form of undoing was related to a sexual assault?

https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1265&context=jj_etds

It's odd that, though both girls had been undressed at some point, there was no typical evidence of sexual assault. I believe that did happen, though.

The more I read the paper linked above, the more I wonder about RA's MO, so to speak, for sexual assault. It is odd that one girl was nude, then re-dressed while the other was completely nude. It's almost like 2 different ways of staging. Either that or he became rushed and couldn't re-dress Libby. Instead, the threw the remaining clothing in the creek, right?

He was up to some unusual type of sexual assault with these girls, which is typical for first time killers with a history of sexual assaults. The most common type of "substitute" sexual assault for first time killers is "undoing", usually undressing or dressing the victims. According to data in the linked article, dressing and undressing the girls was possibly a substitute sexual activity.

I think one of the girls dropped their clothes and shoe in the creek on purpose, asa they were being forced across the creek, hoping their Dad ,or someone, would see them, when they came to look for them.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It’s the timeline, stupid.
Just like we suspected. No one, including the defense team, could get RA off that bridge.
Most importantly, the jury couldn’t get him off either.

 

[Vaderman]

My takeaway from these two episodes...it was all about the timeline. The juror describes the witness Voorhies as being a turning point, nail in the coffin moment. Because even if these witnesses did not describe BG with perfect accuracy, RA describes THEM - particularly the dark hair of Voorhies. @mrjitty has been hammering it home for us this whole time. RA has to be lying about the timing given his own description of the girls he saw.

I was also in tune with the fact that this particular juror seemed like one that might have been willing to accept some of the defense's explanations. She didn't find the bullet evidence that compelling. She may not have liked Rozzi's ego and antics, but she liked Baldwin and Auger. To me she even seemed willing to consider that RA may have been in psychosis when he confessed. But ultimately, the timeline played the key role.

I found it striking that the juror was skeptical about the bullet and it didn't factor into the verdict.

 

[Vaderman]

I'm still listening, but it stood out to me that even though the vote moved from 9-3 guilty vs undecided to 8-4 guilty vs undecided, there weren't any "not guilty" votes.

 

[Vaderman]

According to the juror, no one ever thought Richard Allen was NOT Bridge Guy.

 

[INfisherman]

It’s the timeline, stupid.
Just like we suspected. No one, including the defense team, could get RA off that bridge.
Most importantly, the jury couldn’t get him off either.

Exactly & that is why they didn’t address it during trial & continue to this very day to focus on other factors involving this case. They cannot retract what came out of their client’s canyon of a mouth prior to him being a suspect & while he was in custody. They just cannot poke the right holes in the right places, all thanks to their own client. They just don’t realize it’s not about the sympathy they can draw for their client - still don’t get it to this very day.

 

[Salah11]

According to the juror, no one ever thought Richard Allen was NOT Bridge Guy.

yep that’s just completely logical. It’s clearly him out on the bridge and he admitted it by saying he was out there and dressed like the killer.

 

[Vaderman]

I had a good chuckle when the juror said she's been spending a little too much time reading posts and comments on Reddit and the host groaned. Me too, Juror. Me too.

Did I hear correctly that she either is or planning to go to law school?

 

[INfisherman]

I had a good chuckle when the juror said she's been spending a little too much time reading posts and comments on Reddit and the host groaned. Me too, Juror. Me too.

Did I hear correctly that she either is or planning to go to law school?

Yes, I believe you heard her correctly regarding law school.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Delphi defense team talks openly to 13News about double murder trial | EXTENDED INTERVIEW

Three weeks after a judge sentenced Richard Allen to 130 years in prison in the Delphi murders case, Allen's defense team is speaking publicly about the case.

www.wthr.com