GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #217

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The words "negligent attorneys" has been tossed around a lot. If anyone finds where these two attorneys have been found guilty of negligence and/or broke the rules of professional misconduct, please post the findings.

This link shows both attorneys are active and in good standing:
Hi FG.

This is not a dig towards you or others at all - just offering perspective from both sides. The above may be seen by some in the same light as others who feel RAs rights were violated after his arrest or wrongful incarceration/treatment at any point prior to the trial.

I really wish it were all more cut & dried for both opinions. Unfortunately we all smell something rotten in different areas.

Hope you & yours had a good Thanksgiving.
 
The words "negligent attorneys" has been tossed around a lot. If anyone finds where these two attorneys have been found guilty of negligence and/or broke the rules of professional misconduct, please post the findings.

This link shows both attorneys are active and in good standing:

The only attorney I'm aware of (who has been involved in this case) who has misconduct allegations against him is one of the prosecutors.


As always, just my opinion.
 
The only attorney I'm aware of (who has been involved in this case) who has misconduct allegations against him is one of the prosecutors.


As always, just my opinion.
Odd that NONE of the P shows up as not in good standing from FG’s link above. Allegations mean nothing unless proven, similar to the allegations against the D for leaking CS photos. Besides, LL has been known to be wrong with her click bait reports in the past regarding this case.

MOO
 
The words "negligent attorneys" has been tossed around a lot. If anyone finds where these two attorneys have been found guilty of negligence and/or broke the rules of professional misconduct, please post the findings.

This link shows both attorneys are active and in good standing:
Yes, they are active and in good standing now. And as you are aware, at one time they were not and an investigation had to take place. Respectfully your request is a play on words. You are already aware of the Supreme Court ruling and know the defense team was reinstated.

However, they left their crime scene photos unsecured and allowed access by a person without clearance.

"The leak came when a former colleague of Rozzi’s — who has since been arrested and charged — allegedly took photographs of evidence displayed on the table of a conference room in Rozzi’s law office."

"An investigation into the leak “shows that Defense Counsel failed to secure evidence and discovery materials in this case, specifically graphic crime scene photos, which were then distributed to the public and put on the internet in violation of the Court order dated February 17th, 2023, and evidence supports a conclusion that the disclosure was ongoing,” the filing says.

"Prosecutors said that the leaked photos have been devastating to the victims’ families."

"The multiple leaks from the defense side “show a trend by Defense Counsels Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin of not being completely honest with the Court, violating the Court’s Gag Order set in place to protect the integrity of the case, and failing to comply with the Protective Order put in place to protect the discovery in this case,” prosecutors’ filing said."

The Defense Team left their crime scene photos unsecured and allowed access by a person without clearance. Severe failure on the defenses part. Thus why after they were reinstated they.....

"From that moment the defense team has reportedly taken steps to keep all Delphi-related items locked in a room or locked fireproof file cabinet to ensure no items are left unattended and unlocked."
"In the opinion, Molter also cited the reasons that the Indiana Supreme Court refused to appoint a new special judge. Molter stressed that nothing in the record suggested Gull’s decision to remove Allen’s attorneys “emerged from bias or prejudice against Allen.” Gull said that she made the decision to protect his right to the effective assistance of counsel."
"Though she mistakenly hit defense counsel’s eject button instead of the case’s lockdown button, she was right to try to get the situation under control quickly and decisively,” the opinion read. “Her efforts did not reflect any bias or prejudice, and Allen doesn’t identify anything she has done that demonstrates she isn’t impartial."

1.
https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Ffox59.com%2Fnews%2Findycrime%2Findiana-supreme-court-releases-opinions-on-richard-allen-ruling%2F&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl2%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

2.

3.
 
One thing I know for sure-I don't ever want to hear about "Odonism" again, I can't believe any professional lawyer would present this idea -my son is a lawyer and I'd be embarrassed beyond belief if he presented this as an alternate to his client being guilty.
 
But still a choice(in my opinion).

If Richard Allen wants to hire the worst attorney in the world, isn't that his right to do so?
Well, and he got them back. (I mean, I don't know that I'd say "the worst." The world's a big place.) I don't know if anyone here is following what's going on with John Bittrolff's appeal, but that was a case where the defendant imo had excellent counsel. Their client was convicted and now there are serious questions arising as to whether he was in fact the culprit. Time will tell, but whatever the outcome, the counsel for that client wasted no time in trying to point out logical disconnects in the P's case, and those very points they raised are forming the basis for the current push on that defendant's behalf. JMO, but there's no comparison between the counsel that handled that case and the one we're discussing right now.
If he wants to make an argument for discussion, is that not also his right to do so?
Within the boundaries of reason and meeting the standard set by the court, yes. Nobody including Richard Allen, though, could come in and say a stampede of pink elephants with sword-wielding riders swooped in that very day, drugged him, and yeah, it must have been the elephant guys. And expect a court to say, okay, Rick, let's spend weeks as your attorneys explain what really happened with the elephant guys to the jury.
 
The words "negligent attorneys" has been tossed around a lot. If anyone finds where these two attorneys have been found guilty of negligence and/or broke the rules of professional misconduct, please post the findings.

This link shows both attorneys are active and in good standing:

my comment is whether RA can use JGs finding of negligence against the attorneys. But it’s unlikely given SCOIN reinstated them.
 
But still a choice(in my opinion).

If Richard Allen wants to hire the worst attorney in the world, isn't that his right to do so? If he wants to make an argument for discussion, is that not also his right to do so?

That is not what is under discussion.

On appeal, he will almost certainly have new lawyers and they will throw Rozzi and Baldwin under the bus if they can.

What they have to work with is findings on the record of negligence. The problem is SCOIN knew all about it and put them back in.

So probably RA cannot use this, but nevertheless he does have those on the record findings to use.
 
That is not what is under discussion.

On appeal, he will almost certainly have new lawyers and they will throw Rozzi and Baldwin under the bus if they can.

What they have to work with is findings on the record of negligence. The problem is SCOIN knew all about it and put them back in.

So probably RA cannot use this, but nevertheless he does have those on the record findings to use.
I believe that’s what the AG office was testifying to at the SCOIN hearing. They were arguing the proper place to do all that was the court of appeals, not going to the SCOIN. I think now RA threw all chances out the window of using the tried & true appeal claim of ineffective counsel. I could be mistaken though.
 
my comment is whether RA can use JGs finding of negligence against the attorneys. But it’s unlikely given SCOIN reinstated them.
I agree that it's unlikely. Even if it was likely, I don't see where JG's finding would be cause for an appeal. The following is taken from her court order entry in mycase.
"Despite this Court's findings of sloppiness, negligence, and incompetence, the State is required to prove that Counsels' conduct was willful and intentional beyond a reasonable doubt for the Court to find Counsel in contempt. As the State has not met that burden, the Court declines to find them in contempt of Court for violating the Protective Order issued February 17, 2023, regarding discovery."
 
Yes, they are active and in good standing now. And as you are aware, at one time they were not and an investigation had to take place. Respectfully your request is a play on words. You are already aware of the Supreme Court ruling and know the defense team was reinstated.

However, they left their crime scene photos unsecured and allowed access by a person without clearance.

"The leak came when a former colleague of Rozzi’s — who has since been arrested and charged — allegedly took photographs of evidence displayed on the table of a conference room in Rozzi’s law office."

"An investigation into the leak “shows that Defense Counsel failed to secure evidence and discovery materials in this case, specifically graphic crime scene photos, which were then distributed to the public and put on the internet in violation of the Court order dated February 17th, 2023, and evidence supports a conclusion that the disclosure was ongoing,” the filing says.

"Prosecutors said that the leaked photos have been devastating to the victims’ families."

"The multiple leaks from the defense side “show a trend by Defense Counsels Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin of not being completely honest with the Court, violating the Court’s Gag Order set in place to protect the integrity of the case, and failing to comply with the Protective Order put in place to protect the discovery in this case,” prosecutors’ filing said."

The Defense Team left their crime scene photos unsecured and allowed access by a person without clearance. Severe failure on the defenses part. Thus why after they were reinstated they.....

"From that moment the defense team has reportedly taken steps to keep all Delphi-related items locked in a room or locked fireproof file cabinet to ensure no items are left unattended and unlocked."
"In the opinion, Molter also cited the reasons that the Indiana Supreme Court refused to appoint a new special judge. Molter stressed that nothing in the record suggested Gull’s decision to remove Allen’s attorneys “emerged from bias or prejudice against Allen.” Gull said that she made the decision to protect his right to the effective assistance of counsel."
"Though she mistakenly hit defense counsel’s eject button instead of the case’s lockdown button, she was right to try to get the situation under control quickly and decisively,” the opinion read. “Her efforts did not reflect any bias or prejudice, and Allen doesn’t identify anything she has done that demonstrates she isn’t impartial."

1.
https://search.app?link=https%3A%2F%2Ffox59.com%2Fnews%2Findycrime%2Findiana-supreme-court-releases-opinions-on-richard-allen-ruling%2F&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl2%2Csh%2Fx%2Fgs%2Fm2%2F4

2.

3.
My comment was not a play on words. AFAIK, there is still this from JG's order in mycase:
[snip]
As Defense Counsels' Counsel correctly argues in his post-hearing brief, the gag order was not yet issued. As such, the Court declines to find Counsel in contempt of Court as no Order was in place. To the extent that the Press Release violated the Rules of Professional Responsibility, the Trial Court has no jurisdiction to enforce those Rules. As required by the Rules of Professional Responsibility, the Trial Court will, therefore, send a copy of this Order and the Press Release to the Office of Judicial and Attorney Regulation, Executive Director Adrienne Meiring for that Office to enforce the Rules or determine Counsels' ethical misconduct.

I think your quote below is in error:
"The leak came when a former colleague of Rozzi’s — who has since been arrested and charged — allegedly took photographs of evidence displayed on the table of a conference room in Rozzi’s law office."
 
Odd that NONE of the P shows up as not in good standing from FG’s link above. Allegations mean nothing unless proven, similar to the allegations against the D for leaking CS photos. Besides, LL has been known to be wrong with her click bait reports in the past regarding this case.

MOO

How is she wrong? LL is an approved source, very well respected. She hardly posts click bait. Here's some more documentation of this prosecutor's alleged misdeeds: 2024 9/30 Luttrull Fed Court.pdf

As always, JMO
 
How is she wrong? LL is an approved source, very well respected. She hardly posts click bait. Here's some more documentation of this prosecutor's alleged misdeeds: 2024 9/30 Luttrull Fed Court.pdf

As always, JMO
I didn’t say she was wrong in regards to what you specifically posted, I said she’s been known to be wrong in the past. It’s been mentioned before in the Delphi threads, possibly more than once, feel free to search for them.

Again, allegations are just that & nothing more. Exactly the same as the D were alleged to have leaked crime scene photos. Fact is, all of the P are in good standing, no matter if you find 10,000 allegations from the past 3 decades. People act as if allegations made by any defense team against prosecutors is a huge deal. It’s nothing more than strategy, just like prosecutors do everything in their power to made accused look guilty. Without evidence & a final decision on the matters it’s just smoke without fire, really.

As you said earlier, you have your opinions & I respect those. I have mine.

JMO
 
My comment was not a play on words. AFAIK, there is still this from JG's order in mycase:
[snip]
As Defense Counsels' Counsel correctly argues in his post-hearing brief, the gag order was not yet issued. As such, the Court declines to find Counsel in contempt of Court as no Order was in place. To the extent that the Press Release violated the Rules of Professional Responsibility, the Trial Court has no jurisdiction to enforce those Rules. As required by the Rules of Professional Responsibility, the Trial Court will, therefore, send a copy of this Order and the Press Release to the Office of Judicial and Attorney Regulation, Executive Director Adrienne Meiring for that Office to enforce the Rules or determine Counsels' ethical misconduct.

I think your quote below is in error:
The quote is from msm not me.
 
I didn’t say she was wrong in regards to what you specifically posted, I said she’s been known to be wrong in the past. It’s been mentioned before in the Delphi threads, possibly more than once, feel free to search for them.

Again, allegations are just that & nothing more. Exactly the same as the D were alleged to have leaked crime scene photos. Fact is, all of the P are in good standing, no matter if you find 10,000 allegations from the past 3 decades. People act as if allegations made by any defense team against prosecutors is a huge deal. It’s nothing more than strategy, just like prosecutors do everything in their power to made accused look guilty. Without evidence & a final decision on the matters it’s just smoke without fire, really.

As you said earlier, you have your opinions & I respect those. I have mine.

JMO
The allegations have made it through the court and the motions have been ruled on. One has to sort through 32 pages to understand the outcome (which I don't). If LL spelled it out, I'll take her word for it.

 
But still a choice(in my opinion).

If Richard Allen wants to hire the worst attorney in the world, isn't that his right to do so? If he wants to make an argument for discussion, is that not also his right to do so?
RA's 6th Amendment Rights afforded him an Attorney if he could not afford one on his own. When he decided they were too expensive after he was arrested and said he would pay for his own legal representation at arraignment, he wrote a letter to the Court throwing himself on their mercy (his words) and asking for a Court Appointed Defense Attorney.

RA was entitled to a competent and vigorous defense from an Attorney ordered by the Court, not a lawyer of his own choosing. Judge Gull appointed Rozzi and Baldwin.

JMO
 
The words "negligent attorneys" has been tossed around a lot. If anyone finds where these two attorneys have been found guilty of negligence and/or broke the rules of professional misconduct, please post the findings.

This link shows both attorneys are active and in good standing:
I wonder if it will be that way after this trial and sentencing is over?
 
RA's 6th Amendment Rights afforded him an Attorney if he could not afford one on his own. When he decided they were too expensive after he was arrested and said he would pay for his own legal representation at arraignment, he wrote a letter to the Court throwing himself on their mercy (his words) and asking for a Court Appointed Defense Attorney.

RA was entitled to a competent and vigorous defense from an Attorney ordered by the Court, not a lawyer of his own choosing. Judge Gull appointed Rozzi and Baldwin.

JMO
After they leaked crime scene photos the judge tried to get him better lawyers.
 
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