GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding the pics of the phone at the crime scene. Are they sealed or aren't they?
UPDATE (12/30/2024): Judge Fran Gull ruled on Dec. 30, 2024, that all crime scene and autopsy photos – as well as medical and mental health records – be sealed and maintained as confidential.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-prosecutor-wants-crime-scene-and-autopsy-photos-allens-mental-health-records-sealed/

 

[mrjitty]

RSBM - the funniest part of Nicks response IMO is that Ausbrook's pleading referred to the van video he posted on his YouTube for heavens sake.

If that isn't a sign of how self referential these guys have got i don't know what is. By YouTubers for YouTubers.

And there he is on Motta's latest show.

@1 hour 29 mins we have Ausbrook mulling over Gibsons email. This is Ausbrooks bombshell evidence, yet he didn't know about this email? Has he spoken to Gibson at all? I guess now we know why there was no affidavit from Gibson.

What serious attorney does this?

 

[mrjitty]

If only there had been a way for Ausbrook to understand why Gibson sent that email .... like ask him?

Honestly ...

 

[Boxer]

Came across fact about the P226 that suports the unintentional ejection of a round.
The P226 does not have a safety. It has a a cocking/decocking lever, so basically the gun has no safety at all.
MOO RA wanted to use gun for coercion only, so if he lost track of where he was, racking again (which ejected an unspent round) makes sense.
MOO it's possible he remained there for a while looking for that ejected round but it had been stepped point down into the dirt making it virtually unfindable, then hearing DG made him leave.

 

[mrjitty]

The other thing that really troubles me is that Ausbrook was on Motta's show after the 3 day hearing claiming the D had proof that Libbys phone was off, and turned back on at 3am whereas now he says it was always on with headphones in for hours.

Nowhere has he, Motta or Baldwin & Rozzi ever accounted for this massive change in theory.

Let alone the idea that after all this Odinist stuff, RL is the real killer

Now in court you can have inconsistent theories and the jury may never know. But in real life, obviously you can't do this without revealing that one of your theories was either wrong or you never believed it in the first place.

So which?

MOO

 

[al66pine]

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Detective David Vido

Detective David Vido of the Indiana State Police spoke with us early in January about the Delphi murders case and the investigation into the many crimes of...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Just before 36 minutes, they discuss the Delphi investigation specifically.

Describes executing the search warrant on the house after RA stormed out of the interview.

Describes opening the keepsake box, finding the cartridge alongside family military papers.

Talks about looking through phone records of others once they had RA's name looking for links.

Describes difficulties with the Defense approach, not taking it personally, but finding it just so unsupported. Was glad to be able to testify, at the three day trial, but hard to be separated outside the courtroom, waiting to testify.

Commending words for the Prosecution team.

49m. First time to catch your breath -- at the guilty verdict.

Assessment of mistakes and what can be improve going forward. He thinks a smaller team taking it all in is more effective.

51m "I wish all of the media reported like you [TMS,] did." Reaserched, fair....

Biggest misconception: that LE was incompetent, corrupt.

It was a huge investigation, we all worked together. There was no corruption.

Days DC is one of the most genuine people he ever met. An honor to work for him.

55m. "His heart had been broken for the family. [His voice broke as he said it. ] You can't be a human and not be affected, changed." Hardest cases he ever had to work, Delphi and CSAM.

Paraphrase: How do you do it, day after day, with all the hurdles? "For the girls."

Utmost respect for the families. Thanks then for "sticking with us" and so sorry this happened to them.

@Megnut Thanks for linking, summarizing.

And noting time stamps on esp'ly RELEVANT or NEW points. Terrific.
So grateful for that.

 

[Boxer]

The other thing that really troubles me is that Ausbrook was on Motta's show after the 3 day hearing claiming the D had proof that Libbys phone was off, and turned back on at 3am whereas now he says it was always on with headphones in for hours.

Nowhere has he, Motta or Baldwin & Rozzi ever accounted for this massive change in theory.

Let alone the idea that after all this Odinist stuff, RL is the real killer

Now in court you can have inconsistent theories and the jury may never know. But in real life, obviously you can't do this without revealing that one of your theories was either wrong or you never believed it in the first place.

So which?

MOO

It's done, stick a rune in it.

 

[Vern]

RSBM

I do wonder what the appellate lawyers will make of Rozzi and Baldwin's botched Safekeeping hearing.

Let's consider a key dynamic on appeal. IMO so long as the confessions hold, you will struggle to get a new trial even if Judge Gull made other legal errors (e.g on 3rd party). The reason is because the jury heard all the evidence and found him guilty so an appeal court will be slow to disturb the juries findings about the confessions IMO.

The D case now seems to be that the confessions were unreliable, as they were caused by psychosis, which in turn was caused by the unfair prison conditions. There are a few avenues of attack here - but lets pick at one

It seems problematic that Baldwin & Rozzi

1. missed the opportunity to move for a safekeeping hearing for months - seemingly only acting when their client confessed
2. made submissions the judge found to be dishonest
3. failed to make any pleadings on psychosis with medical/expert basis so the Judge simply did not know this in '23
4. were held by the Judge to have been negligent in their representation
5. instead made submissions that the confessions were caused by odinist prison guards

Pre trial, Rozzi changed tack, opened up the medical evidence, but also seemed to rely on an uncomfortable argument that the confessions were coerced by agents of the state

So I am left wondering if one chance is to argue Baldwin & Rozzi botched the safekeeping. Personally i believe their representation was poor in this regard. Of course they had a weak hand thanks to their client confessing to all an sundry. But the appellate lawyers can point to on the record findings of dishonesty and negligence wrt the safekeeping hearing.

MOO

I'm of the particular opinion that this is exactly why NM repeatedly stressed "Defense Trial Strategy" in his reponse.

Deliberately choosing not to file for a Safekeeping Hearing until after confessions have occured, failing to have your client evaluated, therefore choosing not to present medical evidence, etc were all part of the strategy for the coming trial.

A deliberate choice made for strategic moves is not equal to a "poor"/"weak"/"dishonest" choice by attorney's. Rather a stupid choice in this case made by the very Defence Attorney's that the Indiana Supreme Court found competant.

I believe this is going nowhere. Appeal DENIED. IMO.

 

[INfisherman]

In the beginning of the Murder Sheet episode interviewing Detective David Vido, they stated they recorded the interview in January before [maybe the State?] police stopped participating in interviews. This sounded like a recent development so I wondered what made them suddenly shut down interviews again.

Probably a change in media availability policy. DC just retired. It could also be that they’re working leads related to potential other actors. NM did kind of gloss over questions after sentencing related to POIs being cleared prior to RA being the focus. This in no way insinuates RA isn’t the right person but LE might be making sure RA didn’t have assistance "remotely" or by other means.

Walking with a purpose. Acted like he was waiting on someone.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I'm of the particular opinion that this is exactly why NM repeatedly stressed "Defense Trial Strategy" in his reponse.

Deliberately choosing not to file for a Safekeeping Hearing until after confessions have occured, failing to have your client evaluated, therefore choosing not to present medical evidence, etc were all part of the strategy for the coming trial.

A deliberate choice made for strategic moves is not equal to a "poor"/"weak"/"dishonest" choice by attorney's. Rather a stupid choice in this case made by the very Defence Attorney's that the Indiana Supreme Court found competant.

I believe this is going nowhere. Appeal DENIED. IMO.

They knew it all along & alluded to their doubts of JG ruling favorably during their media tour after sentencing. ETA this motion was effectively a strategic delay, albeit a humorous one.

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

Regarding the pics of the phone at the crime scene. Are they sealed or aren't they?
UPDATE (12/30/2024): Judge Fran Gull ruled on Dec. 30, 2024, that all crime scene and autopsy photos – as well as medical and mental health records – be sealed and maintained as confidential.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-prosecutor-wants-crime-scene-and-autopsy-photos-allens-mental-health-records-sealed/

I doubt pictures of the phone at the crime scene was the scope or reason the motion was requested. The request for sealing was to maintain confidentiality related to the victims & convicted murderer. A picture of a phone is likely not breaching confidentiality, IMO.

From your link:

The material includes gruesome photos of the aftermath as well as photos of Abby Williams and Libby German from their autopsies. The mental health and medical records concern Allen.

In its motion, the state noted some crime scene photos had already made their way into the public sphere when they were “negligently released” by Allen’s defense team in an evidence leak that sent the proceedings into a spiral. The release of those photos has “caused irreparable harm” to the victims’ families, the prosecutor wrote.

McLeland said the release of autopsy photos would have the same impact on the families and “retraumatize them for years to come.

 

[Megnut]

It's done, stick a rune in it.

It's runed, stick a spork in it.

 

[Megnut]

Pert sure you can't get a retrial for ineffective strategy.

Move on, Counselors.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

If only there had been a way for Ausbrook to understand why Gibson sent that email .... like ask him?

Honestly ...

Hence why neither the attorney (Gibson) nor client (RA) included sworn affidavits. Both of them knew the story, as I’m sure AB & BR did as well. It was a swing for the fences with their eyes closed.

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

I just remembered. $24,000. (Defense's cellphone expert)

New details about Libby's phone and the impact of isolation: What defense revealed to jurors

Jurors in the trial of Richard Allen heard from a parade of experts whose testimonies are meant to challenge some of the state's strongest evidence.

www.indystar.com

Someone needs to demand a refund to the state IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I doubt pictures of the phone at the crime scene was the scope or reason the motion was requested. The request for sealing was to maintain confidentiality related to the victims & convicted murderer. A picture of a phone is likely not breaching confidentiality, IMO.

From your link:

The material includes gruesome photos of the aftermath as well as photos of Abby Williams and Libby German from their autopsies. The mental health and medical records concern Allen.

In its motion, the state noted some crime scene photos had already made their way into the public sphere when they were “negligently released” by Allen’s defense team in an evidence leak that sent the proceedings into a spiral. The release of those photos has “caused irreparable harm” to the victims’ families, the prosecutor wrote.

McLeland said the release of autopsy photos would have the same impact on the families and “retraumatize them for years to come.

I agree that the phone pics weren't the reason the motion was requested. My interest is whether or not they were included in the request to seal crime scene photos. Was Nick specific in his request?

My other thought was perhaps they have released some of the discovery.

 

[Boxer]

Probably a change in media availability policy. DC just retired. It could also be that they’re working leads related to potential other actors. NM did kind of gloss over questions after sentencing related to POIs being cleared prior to RA being the focus. This in no way insinuates RA isn’t the right person but LE might be making sure RA didn’t have assistance "remotely" or by other means.

Walking with a purpose. Acted like he was waiting on someone.

JMO

Walking with a purpose often a strategy of half lit people to look normal, MOO it doesn't mean anything. He was there and that ianwhat is significant.

 

[INfisherman]

I agree that the phone pics weren't the reason the motion was requested. My interest is whether or not they were included in the request to seal crime scene photos. Was Nick specific in his request?

My other thought was perhaps they have released some of the discovery.

Ignoring autopsy photos & mental health/medical records, NM states "photos from the crime scene of the murder". This might be excluding photos of the phone, bullet, etc. It’s also mentioning sealed from the public so it’s possible the state is allowed to release photos as they see fit. That’s a question best answered by an attorney or prosecutor. I doubt the discovery will be released for quite some time. Transcripts will likely be first.

Some items from the Motion to Seal:

 

[INfisherman]

Walking with a purpose often a strategy of half lit people to look normal, MOO it doesn't mean anything. He was there and that ianwhat is significant.

For RAs trial, yes that is what is significant. The tip line remains active. I do not recall anyone saying the investigation is officially closed. NM did not address direct questions to certain people being cleared. It might be nothing at all but I believe they are quietly leaving things as is just in case the unlikely occurs & a link is made to other people. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Ignoring autopsy photos & mental health/medical records, NM states "photos from the crime scene of the murder". This might be excluding photos of the phone, bullet, etc. It’s also mentioning sealed from the public so it’s possible the state is allowed to release photos as they see fit. That’s a question best answered by an attorney or prosecutor. I doubt the discovery will be released for quite some time. Transcripts will likely be first.

Some items from the Motion to Seal:

View attachment 563092

Thanks for that. I've lost track of some of the motions docs. Have you found the exhibits that go with the State's answer to the defense MTCE?