GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[INfisherman]

Thanks for that. I've lost track of some of the motions docs. Have you found the exhibits that go with the State's answer to the defense MTCE?

Let me see if I can access them.

 

[INfisherman]

Thanks for that. I've lost track of some of the motions docs. Have you found the exhibits that go with the State's answer to the defense MTCE?

Here is the full state’s response to the MTCE. I manually added in the last 3 pictures of the cell phone so everything is in one PDF.

State's Response to Motion to Correct Error.pdf

drive.google.com

Please let me know you have it FG, as I would prefer to take it offline in a day or so. Thank you.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here is the full state’s response to the MTCE. I manually added in the last 3 pictures of the cell phone so everything is in one PDF.

State's Response to Motion to Correct Error.pdf

drive.google.com

Please let me know you have it FG, as I would prefer to take it offline in a day or so. Thank you.

Thank you. I have it but I don't know if it's by an approved source so I didn't post it.
I'm especially interested in #7. I assume you've read it.

The Physical Discovery Release to both sets of attys. I thought all discovery that the second set of attys had was to be returned to Nick and then back to B&R. I don't understand why S&L are still receiving discovery.

There is a lot of interesting stuff in that filing and names I've never heard of.

 

[Vern]

Here is the full state’s response to the MTCE. I manually added in the last 3 pictures of the cell phone so everything is in one PDF.

State's Response to Motion to Correct Error.pdf

drive.google.com

Please let me know you have it FG, as I would prefer to take it offline in a day or so. Thank you.

@Niner

States Response to MTCE with their exhibits attached in linked post.

Thank you @INfisherman !!

 

[INfisherman]

Thank you. I have it but I don't know if it's by an approved source so I didn't post it.
I'm especially interested in #7. I assume you've read it.

The Physical Discovery Release to both sets of attys. I thought all discovery that the second set of attys had was to be returned to Nick and then back to B&R. I don't understand why S&L are still receiving discovery.

There is a lot of interesting stuff in that filing and names I've never heard of.

No problem.

Regarding exhibit #7, it’s possible NM sent the list of discovery items to both sets of attorneys so each can see the discovery is the same & NM isn’t withholding anything upon receipt, prior to returning to AB & BR. It might be a simple courtesy or SOP.

MOO

 

[INfisherman]

@Niner

States Response to MTCE with their exhibits attached in linked post.

Thank you @INfisherman !!

No problem.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The other thing that really troubles me is that Ausbrook was on Motta's show after the 3 day hearing claiming the D had proof that Libbys phone was off, and turned back on at 3am whereas now he says it was always on with headphones in for hours.

Nowhere has he, Motta or Baldwin & Rozzi ever accounted for this massive change in theory.

Let alone the idea that after all this Odinist stuff, RL is the real killer

Now in court you can have inconsistent theories and the jury may never know. But in real life, obviously you can't do this without revealing that one of your theories was either wrong or you never believed it in the first place.

So which?

MOO

I believe to them it's called the 'Defense Du Jour'. Read the room Rozzi & Baldwin, it's over. Take what's left of your humanity and civility (if there is any) and go back to defending the ilk you're used to. This was way out of your league.

JMO

 

[Niner]

@Niner

States Response to MTCE with their exhibits attached in linked post.

Thank you @INfisherman !!

Thanks for the tag!

 

[FrostedGlass]

No problem.

Regarding exhibit #7, it’s possible NM sent the list of discovery items to both sets of attorneys so each can see the discovery is the same & NM isn’t withholding anything upon receipt, prior to returning to AB & BR. It might be a simple courtesy or SOP.

MOO

If RA would get a new trial, IMO, there's a chance Scremin and Lebrato might come back on. I would be ok with that, as well as them getting this discovery.

 

[Emma Peel]

I had to edit this comment at the bottom. I'm sorry it's a busy week IRL for me.

This is a query in the "for everyone" category - as to the NBC Dateline complaint...

I'm looking @ both NBC (Dateline) and State's MTCE response ...

So ... are the trial exhibits (incl crime scenes) still sealed or not?

Arriving on Docket the same day:
- NBC has no access to exhibits and files a complaint on behalf of public's right to exhibits.
- State publicly publishes exhibits in its MTCE response.

2 weeks earlier, Defense published van video in its MTCE motion...

Given status of public access to trial exhibits ... I'm not sure I understand how the Defense and State have publicly published (docket) any photo or other exhibit whatsoever in their MTCE motions. Would they need written permission from the Court to do so? The seal is lifted, no?

It would be great "for all" if the exhibits (excepting those crime scene items that should always remain sealed) have been released to the public and the NBC complaint was just bad timing.

Had a busy week, it's possible I missed something as to public access?

I dunno it feels like all these exhibits should be available to the public, but are being held up by ... the Clerks?

The transcript, understandably, won't be done for months ... IIRC there will be a hard deadline for that transcript to be provided to RA's appellate team once RA's team requests it via an appeal notice filing.

JMHO

A few minutes later .. Edited to note:
Hard to keep track, but ... the crime scene photos are still sealed? The van video and other discovery/evidence such as phone data and RL confessions etc. is not sealed?

So, if THIS is the case ... why does the State's MTCE have crime scene exhibits (the phone) published to the public docket? What are the rules right now?

FWIW this edit cleared up nothing for me.

JMHO

 

[INfisherman]

If RA would get a new trial, IMO, there's a chance Scremin and Lebrato might come back on. I would be ok with that, as well as them getting this discovery.

I think they have a much greater chance of coming back to represent RA than RA has a chance at getting a retrial based on the MTCE.

Anyone would be an improvement over his current trial attorneys or advocates.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

Came across fact about the P226 that suports the unintentional ejection of a round.
The P226 does not have a safety. It has a a cocking/decocking lever, so basically the gun has no safety at all.
MOO RA wanted to use gun for coercion only, so if he lost track of where he was, racking again (which ejected an unspent round) makes sense.
MOO it's possible he remained there for a while looking for that ejected round but it had been stepped point down into the dirt making it virtually unfindable, then hearing DG made him leave.

I think this is a good theory. DG called Libby around 3:15(I cannot remember exact time) when he was a few minutes away from the Mears trailhead to pick them up. He probably would have told Libby to start walking back towards the trailhead parking lot so he did not have to get out of the car and could just pick them up and leave.

When he could not reach Libby on her cell phone, he arrived and began looking for them on the trails by going down the main trail to the bridge and then the other trail close by that goes towards the bridge but ends by the water near the bridge. I think it would take at least 10 minutes round trip for both of those searches. Then DG gets back to the Mears trailhead area and runs into flannel shirt guy. Since flannel shirt guy was coming from the Freedom bridge area and there is not as much area to go off into the woods between Mears trailhead and Freedom bridge trailhead, he assumes flannel shirt guy's response that he has not seen them on the trail is adequate.

Then DG walks back toward the area he probably feels they are in, the Monon High Bridge itself, due to Libby and her sister liking that area the best from exploring it during previous trips. Whether DG crossed the Monon High Bridge or not I do not know, but I think he probably got to at least the beginning of the bridge and maybe started yelling,

"Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiibbbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!" (or Liberty however he referred to her)

I wonder if someone were standing at the crime scene if they would be able to hear it. I can only guess the killer would not use the trails to walk back to their car if they felt a family member was looking for the girls on the trails themselves.

Until we know about the exact wording of Richard Allen's confession to Dr. Walla, I can only guess if that yelling for Libby is what scared him to leave the crime scene and that he would have walked towards the road to be seen by SC at 3:57pm walking alongside the road. I still cannot figure out how he was not seen walking back to his car after the crime, but at that time people were probably not paying attention as the focus was on looking for Abby and Libby. I think that theory makes sense.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think they have a much greater chance of coming back to represent RA than RA has a chance at getting a retrial based on the MTCE.

Anyone would be an improvement over his current trial attorneys or advocates.

JMO

I haven't seen even 1 prediction that Gull will do anything except deny the MTCE without a hearing based on her history of hearing the defense team's motions.

ETA: I don't think a lot of folks would like S&L much better than B&R.

 

[INfisherman]

I haven't seen even 1 prediction that Gull will do anything except deny the MTCE without a hearing based on her history of hearing the defense team's motions.

ETA: I don't think a lot of folks would like S&L much better than B&R.

She might take the opportunity to tell them face to face but I wouldn’t be surprised either way.

I know nothing of S & L so my opinion means squat - not that it means any more regarding the above either.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Jude Gull got serious about electronics in the courtroom. This can be downloaded.
02D05-2501-CB-000024

01/31/2025 Case Opened as a New Filing​

02/05/2025 Order Issued Ban on Cellular Telephones, Pagers, and Other Electronic Devices Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances C Order Signed: 01/31/2025​

 

[Boxer]

I think this is a good theory. DG called Libby around 3:15(I cannot remember exact time) when he was a few minutes away from the Mears trailhead to pick them up. He probably would have told Libby to start walking back towards the trailhead parking lot so he did not have to get out of the car and could just pick them up and leave.

When he could not reach Libby on her cell phone, he arrived and began looking for them on the trails by going down the main trail to the bridge and then the other trail close by that goes towards the bridge but ends by the water near the bridge. I think it would take at least 10 minutes round trip for both of those searches. Then DG gets back to the Mears trailhead area and runs into flannel shirt guy. Since flannel shirt guy was coming from the Freedom bridge area and there is not as much area to go off into the woods between Mears trailhead and Freedom bridge trailhead, he assumes flannel shirt guy's response that he has not seen them on the trail is adequate.

Then DG walks back toward the area he probably feels they are in, the Monon High Bridge itself, due to Libby and her sister liking that area the best from exploring it during previous trips. Whether DG crossed the Monon High Bridge or not I do not know, but I think he probably got to at least the beginning of the bridge and maybe started yelling,

"Liiiiiiiiiiiiiiibbbbbbbbbbbbyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!" (or Liberty however he referred to her)

I wonder if someone were standing at the crime scene if they would be able to hear it. I can only guess the killer would not use the trails to walk back to their car if they felt a family member was looking for the girls on the trails themselves.

Until we know about the exact wording of Richard Allen's confession to Dr. Walla, I can only guess if that yelling for Libby is what scared him to leave the crime scene and that he would have walked towards the road to be seen by SC at 3:57pm walking alongside the road. I still cannot figure out how he was not seen walking back to his car after the crime, but at that time people were probably not paying attention as the focus was on looking for Abby and Libby. I think that theory makes sense.

IIRC the wind was from the west that day, so sound carried well from the trail and MHB to the CS but not vice versa.

 

[INfisherman]

Here is the full state’s response to the MTCE. I manually added in the last 3 pictures of the cell phone so everything is in one PDF.

State's Response to Motion to Correct Error.pdf

drive.google.com

Please let me know you have it FG, as I would prefer to take it offline in a day or so. Thank you.

The link above is no longer active - file has been removed.

 

[Vern]

Jude Gull got serious about electronics in the courtroom. This can be downloaded.
02D05-2501-CB-000024

01/31/2025 Case Opened as a New Filing​

02/05/2025 Order Issued Ban on Cellular Telephones, Pagers, and Other Electronic Devices Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances C Order Signed: 01/31/2025​

Uploading linked doc just for purposes of those viewing who want to see it.

Carroll County Court related vice RA Trial.

 

[ClearAhead]

< > Then DG gets back to the Mears trailhead area and runs into flannel shirt guy. Since flannel shirt guy was coming from the Freedom bridge area and there is not as much area to go off into the woods between Mears trailhead and Freedom bridge trailhead, he assumes flannel shirt guy's response that he has not seen them on the trail is adequate.

Then DG walks back toward the area he probably feels they are in, the Monon High Bridge itself, due to Libby and her sister liking that area the best from exploring it during previous trips. Whether DG crossed the Monon High Bridge or not I do not know, but I think he probably got to at least the beginning of the bridge and maybe started yelling, < >

For the sake of clarity of facts, you have a link to suggest DG walked anywhere near Monon High Bridge that day? I recall FSG was coming from that very direction, not from Freedom Bridge area and so that’s why DG didn’t go any further to check it out at the time. I think you’ve got it backwards.

 

[INfisherman]

For the sake of clarity of facts, you have a link to suggest DG walked anywhere near Monon High Bridge that day? I recall FSG was coming from that very direction, not from Freedom Bridge area and so that’s why DG didn’t go any further to check it out at the time. I think you’ve got it backwards.

Nice recall. FSG would be David McCain, IIRC. He testified for the defense & said he came from MHB & was leaving via Mears entrance around 4. He didn’t testify to hearing anyone yelling.

After Heath left the stand, David McCain stepped in. McCain has lived in Delphi for 20 years and was a project manager for the Monon High Bridge Trail.

McCain said he was on the trail around 2 or 3 p.m. on Feb. 13, 2017, adding that he saw no other cars there. He used a camera to take photos while he walked, and said he only saw a few people on the trail. He left just before 4 p.m., noting he was surprised by the amount of people at the Mears entrance. He said someone asked him if he’d seen the girls as he was leaving. After learning the girls were missing, he called the sheriff’s office to say he was at the bridge that day. Two FBI agents and an ISP agent interviewed him at his house, and he said he gave them the pictures and SIM card from his camera.

Delphi Trial | Full Coverage

Recap of the trial for Delphi Murders suspect Richard Allen, charged with murder of Abby Williams and Libby German. Opening statements, emotional testimonies, and courtroom sketches.

www.wishtv.com

He told jurors that during his time on the trails and the bridge he never saw or heard anything unusual.

McCain did reach out to the sheriff’s department after hearing of the girls’ deaths. FBI agents spoke to him less than a week later. McCain gave the photographs he took to police. He said he’d been interviewed several times over the years including being asked about capturing any cars in the background of his photos.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-former-fire-chief-recalls-nighttime-search-for-girls-and-lack-of-sightings/