GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[INfisherman]

I thought the man he was talking about was DG. What other man would it have been?

Well, my memory is that he walked from the Mears parking area to the trial head, where he saw FSG coming toward him on the bridge path (501). When the guy said whatever he said, then DG went down the 505, which took him down to the creek. I had assumed he didn't go all the way down to the water and when he didn't hear them or see them, came back up and went toward Freedom bridge.

Who all showed up at Mears looking for the girls?

Right, DM said he was leaving around 4. They probably met somewhere near the 250 foot long trail leading from Mears parking between 3:30 & 4. So DG wasn’t yelling in the MHB area until after RA was out along 300N or well on his way there. The times being given wouldn’t line up or DM would have testified to hearing DG yelling & then seeing him further down towards MHB area. I do not believe DG yelling was what originally spooked RA. MOO

Do you have something to link to regarding trail numbers being mentioned during DGs testimony? I’m only asking due to the scant details which have been reported in the 4 links you & I have posted. I’m not familiar with the trail marker numbers but have read unapproved sources mentioning them.

 

[Megnut]

I thought it was strange that Richard Allen, depending on if he heard DG's voice yelling Libby's name, did not leave the crime scene area earlier than around 3:45pm (if he was seen by SC walking on 300 N at 3:57pm)? I wondered if he saw or heard Libby's phone ringing too? Maybe due to wearing the beanie hat, he could not hear sound well that day? Maybe he only saw the van, but did not hear it?

When Richard Allen confessed about seeing the van that scared him, I still wonder if anyone thought to ask him during this time while he was confessing, "Are you the person in the video from Liberty German's phone video?" Someone had to have asked him that question after his initial interrogations where he denied everything. In my opinion, asking that question and getting an answer of yes after the van confession would have solved the case right there.

Does Richard Allen get frightened by vans, family members yelling out the girls' names, phones ringing or doesn't he?

Rbbm

Yes, they asked him. He said it wasn't him if it came from the girls' phone.

But it is him, if not?

That he didn't answer directly is sus enough.

I'd hate to think the whole verdict would come down to how he might answer that question when NO ONE has greater cause to not be 100% truthful about it.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Right, DM said he was leaving around 4. They probably met somewhere near the 250 foot long trail leading from Mears parking between 3:30 & 4. So DG wasn’t yelling in the MHB area until after RA was out along 300N or well on his way there. The times being given wouldn’t line up or DM would have testified to hearing DG yelling & then seeing him further down towards MHB area. I do not believe DG yelling was what originally spooked RA. MOO

Do you have something to link to regarding trail numbers being mentioned during DGs testimony? I’m only asking due to the scant details which have been reported in the 4 links you & I have posted. I’m not familiar with the trail marker numbers but have read unapproved sources mentioning them.

I don't have any links; that was just my recollection from the long-ago discussions.

I tend to agree that it was not yelling that frightened the killer nor do I think it was a van. I think the killer did whatever he wanted to do and left when he was finished.

 

[Jade]

I thought it was strange that Richard Allen, depending on if he heard DG's voice yelling Libby's name, did not leave the crime scene area earlier than around 3:45pm (if he was seen by SC walking on 300 N at 3:57pm)? I wondered if he saw or heard Libby's phone ringing too? Maybe due to wearing the beanie hat, he could not hear sound well that day? Maybe he only saw the van, but did not hear it?

When Richard Allen confessed about seeing the van that scared him, I still wonder if anyone thought to ask him during this time while he was confessing, "Are you the person in the video from Liberty German's phone video?" Someone had to have asked him that question after his initial interrogations where he denied everything. In my opinion, asking that question and getting an answer of yes after the van confession would have solved the case right there.

Does Richard Allen get frightened by vans, family members yelling out the girls' names, phones ringing or doesn't he?

I’m sure in the excitement of the blood and gore while torturing and posing two naked young girls he was distracted.

RA knew his creek crossing and bowl killing location was sufficient for hiding out. He had the girls under full control by then anyway.

Under the bridge, at the road, he sees a van as he’s got two girls he kidnapped at gunpoint right there probably at least partially undressed it’s going to scare him, that’s believable.

At his killing location across the creek, on private property, where no one would dream of looking for the girls right off and even after time of searching they were hard to find he was not scared off if he did hear and there is nothing saying he had heard anything.

Richard Allen was questioned about the picture of him and had a reply.

There is a media thread for this case. Lots of information.

all imo

 

[tlcya]

I thought it was strange that Richard Allen, depending on if he heard DG's voice yelling Libby's name, did not leave the crime scene area earlier than around 3:45pm (if he was seen by SC walking on 300 N at 3:57pm)? I wondered if he saw or heard Libby's phone ringing too? Maybe due to wearing the beanie hat, he could not hear sound well that day? Maybe he only saw the van, but did not hear it?

When Richard Allen confessed about seeing the van that scared him, I still wonder if anyone thought to ask him during this time while he was confessing, "Are you the person in the video from Liberty German's phone video?" Someone had to have asked him that question after his initial interrogations where he denied everything. In my opinion, asking that question and getting an answer of yes after the van confession would have solved the case right there.

Does Richard Allen get frightened by vans, family members yelling out the girls' names, phones ringing or doesn't he?

as to the BBM portion of yours above:

His confessions were made after he had legal counsel, while in prison. Nobody, upon hearing those confessions, was allowed, by law, to question him about anything. All they could do was make note of what he was saying and not question a word of it or encourage him to continue confessing. That would have been a violation of his rights. Had they done so, not one word of his confessions would have been allowable in his trial for that reason. MOO

 

[INfisherman]

I don't have any links; that was just my recollection from the long-ago discussions.

I tend to agree that it was not yelling that frightened the killer nor do I think it was a van. I think the killer did whatever he wanted to do and left when he was finished.

I think it’s possible the van played some part in RA leaving the scene, by sight, sound or even both, but only one person has these answers & he isn’t talking, if he even remembers those types of details at all.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Relying on RA for the truth requires reason.

He has reasons to lie, reasons not to be 100% truthful. Admitted he was there because intended to **** them -- because he thought they were older. I'm guessing he added that because he doesn't want to associate himself with SAing children. But he made these TWO LITTLE GIRLS undress. He knew they were young.

We might never know the exact timeline or what parts of his stories are exactly accurate. He murdered our best witnesses.

Still, his confessions filled in a lot of gaps. Because they provided the mindset of the killer, not just what happened but how and why.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think it’s possible the van played some part in RA leaving the scene, by sight, sound or even both, but only one person has these answers & he isn’t talking, if he even remembers those types of details at all.

JMO

The van leaves me in a quandary.

Nick has been very precise with all of the important times in this case. We know they checked the transfer station recording (RL) and found that to be off by ?.. half an hour? I'm about as sure as I can be that the HHS cam times were accurate because someone checked them (didn't they?). That leaves me with the van cam. We know it's off by 12 hours but there has been debate about the minutes.

To my way of thinking, since they checked BR's phone for pings, it's hard for me to believe that the van cam was not checked for timing accuracy. MOO

 

[somequestions]

Rbbm

Yes, they asked him. He said it wasn't him if it came from the girls' phone.

But it is him, if not?

That he didn't answer directly is sus enough.

I'd hate to think the whole verdict would come down to how he might answer that question when NO ONE has greater cause to not be 100% truthful about it.

JMO

Was that the only criteria(the pic not being from the girls phone) for Richard Allen to not confess to being the person in the Liberty German phone video? In the context of when the question was asked 5 1/2 years later, everyone by that time knew the bridge guy video came from Liberty German's phone. When exactly did it become public knowledge that the picture/video was from Liberty German's phone?

I thought it became public knowledge on February 22, 2017, the day of the first big press conference? When Richard Allen talked with conservation officer Dulin, what did the front page of the local newspapers look like between February 14th and February 22nd? If Richard Allen went to the store, I thought that maybe he had seen the front page of the newspapers if any of them had the picture of bridge guy on them before February 22nd.

It is too bad the conservation officer did not ask Richard Allen if it was him in the bridge guy picture back when the case happened in February 2017. Maybe if Richard Allen thought it came from a trail cam early on in the case, he might have confessed to it being him in the bridge guy picture?

Then he would have unknowingly placed himself at the scene of the crime at the exact same time as Abby and Libby were on the Monon High Bridge.

 

[INfisherman]

The van leaves me in a quandary.

Nick has been very precise with all of the important times in this case. We know they checked the transfer station recording (RL) and found that to be off by ?.. half an hour? I'm about as sure as I can be that the HHS cam times were accurate because someone checked them (didn't they?). That leaves me with the van cam. We know it's off by 12 hours but there has been debate about the minutes.

To my way of thinking, since they checked BR's phone for pings, it's hard for me to believe that the van cam was not checked for timing accuracy. MOO

BR is BW, I assume?

Yeah, the van footage timestamp is in question as could also be the WiFi pings, as we are assuming BW was carrying a powered on & charged phone with him from work, as well as walking within WiFi range as soon as he arrived home. Some details there which are missing for proof, IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Was that the only criteria(the pic not being from the girls phone) for Richard Allen to not confess to being the person in the Liberty German phone video? In the context of when the question was asked 5 1/2 years later, everyone by that time knew the bridge guy video came from Liberty German's phone. When exactly did it become public knowledge that the picture/video was from Liberty German's phone?

I thought it became public knowledge on February 22, 2017, the day of the first big press conference? When Richard Allen talked with conservation officer Dulin, what did the front page of the local newspapers look like between February 14th and February 22nd? If Richard Allen went to the store, I thought that maybe he had seen the front page of the newspapers if any of them had the picture of bridge guy on them before February 22nd.

It is too bad the conservation officer did not ask Richard Allen if it was him in the bridge guy picture back when the case happened in February 2017. Maybe if Richard Allen thought it came from a trail cam early on in the case, he might have confessed to it being him in the bridge guy picture?

It only requires one step.

RA admitted to being on the platform at the time of the crime. He denied seeing the girls (we know why he'd lie about that) but what he didn't say was that he saw someone else on the bridge, dressed similarly to him. "That's not me if it came from the girls' phone" but otherwise it is. So indeed he's confirming it's what he looked like.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

It only requires one step.

RA admitted to being on the platform at the time of the crime. He denied seeing the girls (we know why he'd lie about that) but what he didn't say was that he saw someone else on the bridge, dressed similarly to him. "That's not me if it came from the girls' phone" but otherwise it is. So indeed he's confirming it's what he looked like.

JMO

If Richard Allen said he was on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge that means nothing in my opinion. That does not mean he is the person in the bridge guy video.

The 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams clearly shows there is no one in the background standing on any of the platforms. Maybe he left platform 1 and came back a few minutes later to walk down the bridge towards the girls and that is when Liberty German pulls out her cell phone to record? That seems like the most probable scenario.

In hindsight, it would have been better evidence if the 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams showed someone standing on platform 1 even if their face could not be made out. That would have at least corroborated the witness testimony of Richard Allen and BB saying he was standing out on platform 1 around the same time.

The problem in this case is confirming the timeline. Even though the case is over, I wonder about the timeline.

 

[tlcya]

In my opinion, asking that question and getting an answer of yes after the van confession would have solved the case right there.

SBM for focus. Despite nobody violating RA's rights not to be interrogated while incarcerated awaiting trial, the case has been solved, tried and a conviction obtained with sentence handed down.

Doesn't really get any more solved than that. JS

 

[iamshadow21]

If Richard Allen said he was on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge that means nothing in my opinion. That does not mean he is the person in the bridge guy video.

The 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams clearly shows there is no one in the background standing on any of the platforms. Maybe he left platform 1 and came back a few minutes later to walk down the bridge towards the girls and that is when Liberty German pulls out her cell phone to record? That seems like the most probable scenario.

In hindsight, it would have been better evidence if the 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams showed someone standing on platform 1 even if their face could not be made out. That would have at least corroborated the witness testimony of Richard Allen and BB saying he was standing out on platform 1 around the same time.

The problem in this case is confirming the timeline. Even though the case is over, I wonder about the timeline.

The video was timestamped 2:13.

 

[snarast]

If Richard Allen said he was on platform 1 of the Monon High Bridge that means nothing in my opinion. That does not mean he is the person in the bridge guy video.

The 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams clearly shows there is no one in the background standing on any of the platforms. Maybe he left platform 1 and came back a few minutes later to walk down the bridge towards the girls and that is when Liberty German pulls out her cell phone to record? That seems like the most probable scenario.

In hindsight, it would have been better evidence if the 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams showed someone standing on platform 1 even if their face could not be made out. That would have at least corroborated the witness testimony of Richard Allen and BB saying he was standing out on platform 1 around the same time.

The problem in this case is confirming the timeline. Even though the case is over, I wonder about the timeline.

I wonder about how nobody recognized him and also I’m wondering about height assessments based on Libby’s video - why they weren’t made - or did I be miss that? RA’s height is very distinctive. It should be possible to simulate similar scenarios. I guess the defense didn’t bother - who needs science when you’ve got Odin, Yggdrasil and Ragnarök to worry about…

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I wonder about how nobody recognized him and also I’m wondering about height assessments based on Libby’s video - why they weren’t made - or did I be miss that? RA’s height is very distinctive. It should be possible to simulate similar scenarios. I guess the defense didn’t bother - who needs science when you’ve got Odin, Yggdrasil and Ragnarök to worry about…

JMO

Good point and surely the defence hired an expert to attempt to estimate the height of BG in the photo. I’m guessing they did however the results matched RAs height, otherwise a much taller height would’ve created far more reasonable doubt than a mystery person with earbuds plugged into Libby’s phone under Abby’s body listening to nothingness for hours in the middle of the night.

JMO

 

[Jade]

I wonder about how nobody recognized him and also I’m wondering about height assessments based on Libby’s video - why they weren’t made - or did I be miss that? RA’s height is very distinctive. It should be possible to simulate similar scenarios. I guess the defense didn’t bother - who needs science when you’ve got Odin, Yggdrasil and Ragnarök to worry about…

JMO

Defense probably tried a comparison and it showed a 5’5 BG, lol.

I don’t think being 5’5 as very distinctive to the point of positive identification. I posted a picture of him in court surrounded by similar sized men.

Just so happened no CVS customers who notice RA crossed his path.


All imo

 

[Vern]

RA has ben found guilty by a jury of his peers already 'Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!' ... so onto the stuff that's new IMO:

@Niner

7/02/25: Twist Media LLC's Motion To Intervene And To Compel Access To Public Trial Exhibits:

_Twist Media LLC’s Motion to Intervene and to Compel Access to Public Trial Exhibits.pdf

drive.google.com

7/02/25: E-filing Appearance By Attorney In Civil Case (by: Robert R. Foos):

_Robert R. Foos, Jr Appearance.pdf

drive.google.com

.

 

[somequestions]

The video was timestamped 2:13.

The picture Liberty German posted of the entire length of the bridge was posted at 2:05pm. If Richard Allen had been on the bridge at that time, he might have seen Libby had a cell phone. Then there is the 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams with the bridge in the background and no one is standing on any of the platforms.
I wondered where Richard Allen was during this time? Maybe sometime after the 2:07pm post picture, he started his movement across the Monon High Bridge to approach the girls?

I know there are probably other cases where an abduction victim still had their cell phone on them, but it seemed like a risk if Libby decided to call for help.

It did seem like a risk for Richard Allen to let the conservation officer Dulin write down the identification number from his phone a few days after the crime. Maybe Richard Allen was not worried about cell phone tracking, but if he left his cell phone at home when he decided to go to the Monon High Bridge, that might indicate he is concerned with cell phone tracking.

Maybe that is why someone wrote "cleared" on Richard Allen's tip file because they found it unbelievable that someone would speak to police immediately after the crime and offer up their cell phone id number to possibly place their phone at that scene of the crime. It is ironic when you think about Liberty German's cell phone location too.

I know none of this proves anything other than Richard Allen needed to watch a few more episodes of Dateline.

 

[Knox]

The picture Liberty German posted of the entire length of the bridge was posted at 2:05pm. If Richard Allen had been on the bridge at that time, he might have seen Libby had a cell phone. Then there is the 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams with the bridge in the background and no one is standing on any of the platforms.
I wondered where Richard Allen was during this time? Maybe sometime after the 2:07pm post picture, he started his movement across the Monon High Bridge to approach the girls?

I know there are probably other cases where an abduction victim still had their cell phone on them, but it seemed like a risk if Libby decided to call for help.

It did seem like a risk for Richard Allen to let the conservation officer Dulin write down the identification number from his phone a few days after the crime. Maybe Richard Allen was not worried about cell phone tracking, but if he left his cell phone at home when he decided to go to the Monon High Bridge, that might indicate he is concerned with cell phone tracking.

Maybe that is why someone wrote "cleared" on Richard Allen's tip file because they found it unbelievable that someone would speak to police immediately after the crime and offer up their cell phone id number to possibly place their phone at that scene of the crime. It is ironic when you think about Liberty German's cell phone location too.

I know none of this proves anything other than Richard Allen needed to watch a few more episodes of Dateline.

Speaking of Dateline, look forward to the episode on this case.