GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[FrostedGlass]

I don't know that they spoke to that.

I think it's safe to say that the video was hard to decipher, without aid.

Example: say you're recoding something but drop your phone. While it tumbles, it's still recording.

Makes send to me that you'd need to stabilize it, orient it, slow it down, frame by frame, to be able to see what's up and down, what was but a flash.

Extraordinary that it was filmed, that it was recovered and that it contained so many identifiable details, including key elements of the crime.

JMO

Did they think she dropped it or is that your thought? I was wondering how the image got upside down.

Now there's time for looking back: Hat/hoodie/hair, brown thing/shirttail/pouch, white thing/multiple choices, gun/no gun, strange step/blocking, spitting/talking, pondering the strange angle of his right foot. All those hours spent scrubbing the net for a similar coat, similar boots, figuring his exact location on the bridge, his height, his mannerisms.

I agree that the whole thing is extraordinary. Thank you for your help.

 

[Megnut]

Did they think she dropped it or is that your thought? I was wondering how the image got upside down.

Now there's time for looking back: Hat/hoodie/hair, brown thing/shirttail/pouch, white thing/multiple choices, gun/no gun, strange step/blocking, spitting/talking, pondering the strange angle of his right foot. All those hours spent scrubbing the net for a similar coat, similar boots, figuring his exact location on the bridge, his height, his mannerisms.

I agree that the whole thing is extraordinary. Thank you for your help.

I used a phone drop to illustrate the challenges. I think the supposition is that she lowered her phone to her side, and insodoing the phone (IMO) moved from portrait to landscape or vice versa, and then positioned downward, showing bridge and path and their feet.

I imagine it's the case that the video is hard to understand, but one cleaned up, more clear, which then gives context clues to make the original easier to process/follow.

JMO

 

[Jade]

And still. Nobody recognized him. It still is a bit mind boggling. just stating the rather bleeding obvious, no offence, no RA sympathy.

Just a sense of - Huh? That never seems to go away. I guess we all have our vices, childlike persistent wonderment, when noting something seemingly unfathomable, being mine…

Nobody that we know of recognized him.

Nobody went on the stand to take up for him either. Not even KA. The sister and daughter made no impact either way, imo.

RA is just another common garden variety pervert capable of horrors like we read about everyday on WS who slimed by in his insignificant life until he destroyed others for as he says he's selfish. Just like all the countless others, imo.

There are some mysteries out there but for me this isn't one.

To depend on the public or family to come forward is not the way such crimes are solved, imo. So it doesn't hold much weight to me to identify a grainy photo of someone we've seen at CVS is a monster who took and killed two young girls and went back to work as if nothing happened is beyond most of us.

[I feel CVS is a place of trust. When I used to use their pharmacy I put my life in their hands without thought. And if I remember correctly the whole pharmacy area was up on a platform several feet high so they all towered over. I've been meaning to ask the pharmacist that worked at that one and posts on WS if they were up on the platform there like at my older store]

all imo

 

[snarast]

Nobody that we know of recognized him.

Nobody went on the stand to take up for him either. Not even KA. The sister and daughter made no impact either way, imo.

RA is just another common garden variety pervert capable of horrors like we read about everyday on WS who slimed by in his insignificant life until he destroyed others for as he says he's selfish. Just like all the countless others, imo.

There are some mysteries out there but for me this isn't one.

To depend on the public or family to come forward is not the way such crimes are solved, imo. So it doesn't hold much weight to me to identify a grainy photo of someone we've seen at CVS is a monster who took and killed two young girls and went back to work as if nothing happened is beyond most of us.

[I feel CVS is a place of trust. When I used to use their pharmacy I put my life in their hands without thought. And if I remember correctly the whole pharmacy area was up on a platform several feet high so they all towered over. I've been meaning to ask the pharmacist that worked at that one and posts on WS if they were up on the platform there like at my older store]

all imo

Ya, that’s just it.

Maybe the appeals coming up will be even more toothless and ludicrously misguided than expected.

And maybe that’s because while RA is already gone, others might not be. There’s clearly something left to fight for given the defense rhetoric - I hope it’s just some obnoxious social media career path, and not a bunch of pervs.

Or other people who should suffer the consequences of their actions.

 

[Megnut]

Posting this archived TMS podcast for anyone who might want to listen. I'm going to give it a second listen. They cover the day the video was introduced into evidence.

JMO

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Four: The Video

We discuss the fourth day of Richard Allen's trial. We saw the full video that Liberty German recorded on her phone. Support The Murder Sheet by buying a...

murdersheetpodcast.com

 

[somequestions]

IMO The height assessments weren't made by either side because they couldn't be made. I hope there will come a time when we get to see the actual video and the transcript of how that image of BG on the bridge was created.

If anyone has a summary of TMS's take on the video, please share it.

I would want to make sure of the person's height from Liberty German's phone video. Also, I would want to know how broad an area the Hoosier Harvest Store surveillance camera covered looking at 300 N and the surrounding area because from video I have seen it looks like the actual surveillance camera attached to the building is in a dome and it is hard to see which direction the surveillance camera is actually pointing towards.

I agree Liberty German's phone video was the best evidence. I also think the picture of Abigail William's at 2:07pm is also good evidence. A jury convicted Richard Allen so they must think he is bridge guy from the video. The circumstantial evidence does seem strong in terms of Richard Allen's location on the trails at the time of the crime. It is difficult to understand why someone would confess so many times to the murders if they were not the killer. But it would be nice if someday someone could figure out the height of the person in the video Liberty German left because it really was the best piece of evidence.

 

[somequestions]

In the case referenced below, investigators were able to figure out the height of someone who claimed not to be at the scene of the crime. This case happened in 1987 and I know the circumstances are different from Abigail Williams and Liberty German's case. Hopefully someday investigators in the Delphi case will be able to determine the height of the bridge guy from Liberty German's phone video.

In the show from Forensic Files, the victim's name is Donna Hartman when in reality her name was Deana Wild. All the pictures in the show are re-creations and not the actual pictures from the crime scene. There are actual pictures that were taken that day in 1987 (some of which you can find online), but they are not featured in the show. At first, prosecutors did not want to go forward with prosecuting this case due to a lack of evidence.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't know that they spoke to that.

I think it's safe to say that the video was hard to decipher, without aid.

Example: say you're recoding something but drop your phone. While it tumbles, it's still recording.

Makes send to me that you'd need to stabilize it, orient it, slow it down, frame by frame, to be able to see what's up and down, what was but a flash.

Extraordinary that it was filmed, that it was recovered and that it contained so many identifiable details, including key elements of the crime.

JMO

If there was really any doubt BG as we know him was not in the video, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for the defence to hire a video analyst to show this. A novice can isolate the frames with BG in them for comparison, even before you get into stabilisation etc

IMO the only interesting angle is how far away BG is in those frames - but the D had every chance to make those arguments

 

[FrostedGlass]

I wonder if RA expanded on his confession to Wala. It seems like he had great expectations of successfully capturing two young teens and sexually assaulting them both in a limited amount of time. The private drive could be seen from the bridge so there was always the chance someone could come along any time. What were his plans for after the assaults?

 

[Megnut]

I wonder if RA expanded on his confession to Wala. It seems like he had great expectations of successfully capturing two young teens and sexually assaulting them both in a limited amount of time. The private drive could be seen from the bridge so there was always the chance someone could come along any time. What were his plans for after the assaults?

Other witnesses described a face mask, presumably he was hiding his mouth, obscuring his face/beard. In Libby's video, apparently his face was visible. He didn't bother hiding his face. IMO the moment he stepped on the bridge, they were dead.

He was not going to leave survivors.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Other witnesses described a face mask, presumably he was hiding his mouth, obscuring his face/beard. In Libby's video, apparently his face was visible. He didn't bother hiding his face. IMO the moment he stepped on the bridge, they were dead.

He was not going to leave survivors.

JMO

So, do you think he lied to Wala and planned all along to take them across the creek to rape and kill them?

 

[FrostedGlass]

If there was really any doubt BG as we know him was not in the video, it would have been the easiest thing in the world for the defence to hire a video analyst to show this. A novice can isolate the frames with BG in them for comparison, even before you get into stabilisation etc

IMO the only interesting angle is how far away BG is in those frames - but the D had every chance to make those arguments

Didn't LE tell us those were the best images they could get?

We don't really know what chances the D had to make any arguments or what ones were objected to and sustained. How many sidebars were there and how many cautions? If we ever get to see the trial transcript, we might get some answers to those questions.

I agree with you on the interesting angle. I haven't seen any comments on where BG is in the original video.

 

[Megnut]

So, do you think he lied to Wala and planned all along to take them across the creek to rape and kill them?

I think that RA is no one-dimensional character. Not some normal guy who suddenly decided to be outrageous. I think RA has always been skeevy, he just kept it in check that day. And something that day made RA stop self-regulating. He went there angry, he went there with intention.

IMO no one forces two little girls to undress without sexual intentions. Forcing them to undress is SA and it's important to remember that SA comes in myriad, all-awful ways. We don't know what he did or didn't do to those little girls. To them, in front of them, what his detailed intention was or whether he achieved it.

I think RA was scrubbing his confession. For example, saying he made sure they were dead because he "didn't want them to suffer". But if you break that down, his attempt to make himself look not so bad, actually makes him worse. He didn't care about their suffering, he didn't render first aid, call an ambulance; he watched them die, watched them bleed out. Subhuman. For all we know, that was the sexual payout for him. Power, control.

"I thought they were older." IMO again scrubbing his own history. Pretending he wouldn't have ordered them down the hill if he knew their ages. He doesn't want to be known as a baby killer, baby SAer. It's not about the truth, for him, IMO, it's about repackaged it so it doesn't look so bad. Even though it's all awful, all ugly.

I don't know why Abby we redressed. Maybe he did he let her go, whether he did or didn't plan to. Maybe he did it so she's think he was going to let her go. If she cooperated.

Think about that. He may have told her to redress, then told her to lie down, if she moved, he'd kill Libby. I suspect he used several threats to force their cooperation.

But he was disorganized from the start, his thinking was disorganized, IMO. Ill-conceived, poorly executed, possible only because he had a gun. Which he used to manipulate, threaten, terrify.

If we could get in his head, which I don't recommend, I think we'd see that RA is a chronically weak man, subject to domineering women on whom he's dependent but also profoundly resents. I think we'd see that his sexual proclivities are way outside the bound of acceptable.

I do think he was interrupted and didn't fulfill his entire fantasy, whatever it was, but murder, that was going to happen regardless. He knew he couldn't leave survivors.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

In the case referenced below, investigators were able to figure out the height of someone who claimed not to be at the scene of the crime. This case happened in 1987 and I know the circumstances are different from Abigail Williams and Liberty German's case. Hopefully someday investigators in the Delphi case will be able to determine the height of the bridge guy from Liberty German's phone video.

In the show from Forensic Files, the victim's name is Donna Hartman when in reality her name was Deana Wild. All the pictures in the show are re-creations and not the actual pictures from the crime scene. There are actual pictures that were taken that day in 1987 (some of which you can find online), but they are not featured in the show. At first, prosecutors did not want to go forward with prosecuting this case due to a lack of evidence.

That was really interesting. I wonder if the original image of BG is just too small to get what they need? Is there even a shadow to go by? I'm not even understanding how they got the pictures we've been looking at for 7 years. Did they use AI to make the images?

 

[Emma Peel]

​

 

[FrostedGlass]

View attachment 564311​

Thank you for remembering.

 

[SMK777]

View attachment 564311​

Lovely for Abby and Libby, to memorialize February 13 for them.

 

[Boxer]

Since the arrest of RA this case has reminded me of the Defendant, James Blevins, in an old case the Lula Lake Murders.

I’ve linked an interesting excerpt.

Cormac McCarthy’s book Child of God draws from the James Blevins murder case.

In the book when Lester is abducted by a mob even to their outraged eyes “he didn’t look like much”

This link should open to page 138 the chapter on James Blevins, Lookout Mountain Voyeur from the book Reading the World: Cormac McCarthy’s Tennessee Period



…the simmering impulse towards violence cooled… as the trial process went on and pictures of James Blevins reached the public. Timid, ashamed, soft of voice and small of frame…
Reading the World

Since this is WS I found a link to an article by an attorney with the procedural mistakes that led to acquittals:
Jerry Summers: The Lula Lake Murders


RA wasn’t suspected, imo, because he wasn’t noticed enough to be considered, too nothing, not conspicuous or remarkable good or bad. Except to KA.

RA, imo, works a dual personality like on the trails. A little nice soft spoken milquetoast at work and the bar but at home watching horror, goggling creepy topics, drinking to loud disagreeable excess.

All imo

But just to add, some co-workers spoke of his creepiness.
MOO as milquetoastiness does not preclude leering, lurking or saying uncomfortable things etc.

 

[Boxer]

Nobody that we know of recognized him.

Nobody went on the stand to take up for him either. Not even KA. The sister and daughter made no impact either way, imo.

RA is just another common garden variety pervert capable of horrors like we read about everyday on WS who slimed by in his insignificant life until he destroyed others for as he says he's selfish. Just like all the countless others, imo.

There are some mysteries out there but for me this isn't one.

To depend on the public or family to come forward is not the way such crimes are solved, imo. So it doesn't hold much weight to me to identify a grainy photo of someone we've seen at CVS is a monster who took and killed two young girls and went back to work as if nothing happened is beyond most of us.

[I feel CVS is a place of trust. When I used to use their pharmacy I put my life in their hands without thought. And if I remember correctly the whole pharmacy area was up on a platform several feet high so they all towered over. I've been meaning to ask the pharmacist that worked at that one and posts on WS if they were up on the platform there like at my older store]

all imo

Also MOO his more recent searching for horror movies suggests he was back into the onset of a sequence that would end in the murder of more women or girls.
So thank you Detective Kathy Shank, fitting you worked a career in the Department of Child Protective Services.

 

[Cylops127]

I’m a long time lurker, first time poster. Thinking of Abby and Libby and their families today. I’ve followed this case from the beginning and through the trial and sentencing. My little sister was born a few months after Abby, and is graduating college soon. I think of where these girls could have been now, had they not come across Richard Allen on that fateful day 8 years ago. They would have gone on to do incredible things. It’s so heartbreaking.

Seeing some people online trying to defend the man who is convicted of their murder has really been disturbing to witness. I can’t imagine how it makes the families feel, although I hope they are staying away from online discourse altogether. Richard Allen supporters make me question my own consumption of true crime and the ethics of it all.

I’m glad that this anniversary comes with the knowledge that justice has been served. Rest in peace, Abby and Libby.