Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

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So he would have LG remove her clothes so as not to leave DNA evidence but then put them on AW?
Why would he remove clothes and then leave them at the crime scene if the sole purpose was to eliminate DNA evidence?

I’m confused here.
You don't have to be successful with an action for a motive to be the reason for the action. The discussion centered around why a perpetrator would remove a victim's clothing. It very well could be SA, and I've never suggested it isn't. I only asserted that there are alternative hypotheses to why a perp would do that.
 
I think the Prosecution would need to be careful how they presented such evidence, and the Judge may limit it. What is the nature of the evidence and what is the purpose of introducing it?
Motive. The FBI analysts suggested this was a sexually motivated attack, and the evidence is the way the girls were found, Libby undressed, Abby redressed in her friend's clothes. Blood evidence suggests that the redressing happened before the physical attack.

_Testimony of Major Patrick Cicero Given at Hearing on Motion in Limine Held August 1, 2024.pdf


drive.google.com
drive.google.com

The relevant testimony is p16 to p19, specifically disputing the idea that LW's bra or sweatshirt were put on AW post mortem. The redressing and undressing had already occurred.

Additionally, there was talk that the accused was recorded confessing to molesting the girls.

It will all be shown in trial, but IMO if the above is correct, then there is plenty of evidence that the attack was sexually motivated. Would that be too far off?

All MOO
 
So close! And then I will spend tomorrow worrying that more jurors will get cold feet overnight... They are getting sworn in on Thursday, correct?

Correct. Also I have in my notes that they will also be pending motions to decide.

edited to add - and the motion if the jurors will see the crime scene.
 
ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. – Defense lawyers for Richard Allen made a startling admission during Tuesday’s jury selection.

Allen’s defense team revealed that hair was found in Abby Williams’ hand that didn’t match Richard Allen. That’s the first time that information has been made public. Attorney Andrew Baldwin made the comments during “mini opening statements” preceding jury selection.



Updated: Oct 15, 2024 / 12:03 PM EDT
Is this...a violation of the gag order?
 
In my own, personal opinion, we should wait to hear what the witnesses have to say before coming to the conclusion that he is guilty of this crime.

As always, just my humble opinion.

God bless America and the freedoms we are afforded.

JMO IMO MOOOO
In court as a juror, yes. On a true crime discussion board, not so much. The jurors do not know the information we know. If they did, they would be dismissed! The court wants people who have no knowledge, so they can only learn in court. In court, it is a blank slate with a presumption of innocence. We have lots of information through documents and previous hearings. We are all here, with open ears and minds. If something drastically changes, then we can change our minds. But we also have both logic and previous facts of the case to base our current opinions on. We don't have to listen to a whole trial before coming to some conclusions on a discussion forum. If that was the case, there would be no discussion. Just "wait for the trial".
 
ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. – Defense lawyers for Richard Allen made a startling admission during Tuesday’s jury selection.

Allen’s defense team revealed that hair was found in Abby Williams’ hand that didn’t match Richard Allen. That’s the first time that information has been made public. Attorney Andrew Baldwin made the comments during “mini opening statements” preceding jury selection.



Updated: Oct 15, 2024 / 12:03 PM EDT
Just guessing here, is this an animal hair? Hair from a furry coat? A child grabbing at the ground and animal hair is caught up in her hand or under her nails? Did an animal walk over them leaving a hair behind?

Just by "pronouncing" it wasn't Allen's is to produce shock and awe.

I'm not taking this bait.
 
No, because this was during the course of official proceedings. The gag order applied to statements that would be disseminated by the media.

Still, this is just more of the defense team throwing out something to stir everything up, just like in their motions. The majority of it was misinformation or outright lies we found out later.
I suspect this is more of the same from them. I doubt anything will become of it.
 
Thanks.
So it appears the defense is using their list of 120 potential witnesses to attempt to manipulate the trial process and hamper the prosecution’s ability to present evidence to the jury.
The defense submitting an exhaustive list of any and all potential witneses is not manipulating the trial process, it's part of the process that prevents a juror from being seated that might be acquainted with a potential witness. The rule is it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Jurors are also asked if they know any of the state's witnesses, involved LE, court staff, attorneys, etc.

So far, it has not been said that this list has affected jury selection, which seems to have moved efficiently at breakneck speed. I don't see how it could "hamper" the prosecution's ability to present evidence during the trial.
MOO
 
I hope so. I'm curious how he thinks that played out.

I really hate that the P chose that as a motive. The crime was so bad in itself, he really didn't need to go there.
Now that will be forever attached to this case. What a shame. In My Opinion

The P didn't "choose" this as a motive.
It's what happened and RA should be held accountable for the evil he has done. IMO
 
<>

And @justtrish , it hasn't escaped everyone's notice that your little emblem there showing it's you posting-- you know, it's very bright green. And I don't like it. And I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Just putting that out there. (@Melted, you too may want to take note of this.)

I try to follow along and understand....but sometimes I just don't get it....so please tell me, exactly what is the issue with a bright green emblem that people don't like?
 
I try to follow along and understand....but sometimes I just don't get it....so please tell me, exactly what is the issue with a bright green emblem that people don't like?
It was a joke because of that juror that claimed vehemently that he 'did not like the colour green', IMO
 
Still, this is just more of the defense team throwing out something to stir everything up, just like in their motions. The majority of it was misinformation or outright lies we found out later.
I suspect this is more of the same from them. I doubt anything will become of it.
Just going off my own experience with jury selection, but I'm trying to understand the context that this would have been brought up.
 
I hope the DA sticks to the facts of the case, present solid evidence and leave out the fluff. Need the science and technology more than anything else.

Are they including all the witnesses on the trail that day? Is it necessary unless of course RA can clearly be identified as BG. I doubt it, though.

In addition, this is a circumstantial (as most are) case so evidence will need to be reasonable to support the state's claim.

There is no direct evidence here. No one saw RA commit the heinous crime.

Matter of opinion.

Let there be respect and justice for Abby & Libby.
 
Just going off my own experience with jury selection, but I'm trying to understand the context that this would have been brought up.
I will wait until The MS or another media outlet reports on the details, but I imagine it was something like 'would you convict an accused... even if you knew that the hair that was found in AW's hand did not belong to him?'

All MOO
 
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