Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #198

[TTF14]

The Unified Command Center believed this was a sexually motivated crime from the beginning. That can easily be concluded by the fact that Libby was left completely nude.

The state in the pre trial hearings basically stated in their cross of Perlmutter that RA confessed that his intention was to sexually assault but he ended up killing Libby and Abby before he got the chance.

In my opinion, I just can’t make this make sense. Abby was supposedly redressed in Libby’s clothes (that don’t match what reports said Libby was wearing) and the scene was then staged, in my opinion. If he was interrupted, why take the time? Why not just leave them both nude and just run? Maybe Abby was never nude at all and only Libby was. But then in the bridge pic, Abby has a different outfit on. Will the State have a logical explanation for all of this?

As always, JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Depression is a mental illness that can affect people in many ways, including their mood, thinking, and behavior.

Sometimes depression can lead to psychosis if it gets severe enough.

And he might have been drinking for all we know.

jmopinion

 

[Yesiamapirate]

Will BP and MP be able to watch the trial since they are on the witness list? Not sure how that works.

 

[shonyakay]

In my own, personal opinion, If I’m a juror, I’m going to wonder how and why, if a SA was the motive, but RA was interrupted, he took the time to redress Abby and stage the crime scene the way it was staged. If he was interrupted, wouldn’t he have just high-tailed it out of there? This my opinion.

As always, JMO IMO MOOOO

From my understanding the state is saying RA's plan of sexually assaulting the girls' was interrupted on the "down the hill" side of the creek so he lead them across the creek to a further secluded area. The running creek was loud as well so crossing the creek would help to reduce any sounds/screams.

And as far as RA redressing Abby we don't know if that is the case because in the state's cross of D. Perlmutter they seemed to be suggesting that Abby was dressed before she was killed not after.

I think the "staging" was just RA manipulating the crime scene trying to conceal as best he could what he had done, i.e. moving Libby and placing sticks to cover them.

If Sarah Carbaugh saw the muddy/bloody man at 3:57 p.m. RA may have high tailed it out of there when people began looking and calling for the girls' as Libby's dad was said to have arrived around 3:15 p.m. to pick them up.

 

[Vern]

it’s no wonder the prosecution wanted the Geofence data excluded from evidence if RA is nowhere to be found on it.

Going to be a very tough case for the prosecution in my opinion.

I disagree.

For me as a juror, a lack of RA Geofence data would show that RA was telling some untruths during his chat with Conservation Officer DD.

While bits of RAs statement to him are collaborated via video and the three juveniles also stating they saw him at same place and time that he saw them, he himself hedges his bet that there would be geofence data on him via his "checking the stock ticker".

If that data doesn't show up (did he use a differen phone than the one he told DD he had that day?), what was he actually up to as it was not watching the stock ticker as he claimed. What actions of his is he actually covering up by lying bout this 'stock ticker watching' as he's still on that bridge and obviously not doing what he stated he was.

 

[Yemelyan]

Will BP and MP be able to watch the trial since they are on the witness list? Not sure how that works.

In some other trials I have seen, this is dealt with by having close family members testify relatively early in the proceedings, and then the judge asks both sides if the witness(es) are "released from their subpoena." If both sides say yes, the victims' families can then sit in the court for the remainder of the trial.

 

[shonyakay]

In my opinion, I just can’t make this make sense. Abby was supposedly redressed in Libby’s clothes (that don’t match what reports said Libby was wearing) and the scene was then staged, in my opinion. If he was interrupted, why take the time? Why not just leave them both nude and just run? Maybe Abby was never nude at all and only Libby was. But then in the bridge pic, Abby has a different outfit on. Will the State have a logical explanation for all of this?

As always, JMO

I believe the state is going to say that Abby was dressed BEFORE she was killed not after.

Unfortunately there was evidence that Abby was nude at some point from the waist down. Cisero testified to this.

The only staging imo was RA trying to hide what he had done.

 

[Inthedetails]

In some other trials I have seen, this is dealt with by having close family members testify relatively early in the proceedings, and then the judge asks both sides if the witness(es) are "released from their subpoena." If both sides say yes, the victims' families can then sit in the court for the remainder of the trial.

The defense has at least one victim family member on their list of potential witnesses. Seems cruel and unnecessary to keep a family member from being present.

jmopinion

 

[statt#1]

I'm very curious how LE knows he was interrupted on near side of creek. Only thing I can think of is evidence on a phone.

 

[arielilane]

Liberty "Libby" German, 14, and Abigail "Abby" Williams, 13, were eighth graders at Delphi Community Middle School in 2017.

According to Indy Star, part of the USA TODAY Network, the community named a softball park after the friends because they were both such avid softball players.

Libby also played volleyball, soccer and swimming. She participated in band and Academic Bowl and loved arts and crafts and vacations. Abby participated in band and volleyball, loved reading and enjoyed photography, art and decorating her mom's home. She loved the outdoors and animals — especially her cat, Bongo.

Richard Allen on trial in Delphi Murders: What happened to Libby German and Abby Williams

The murders of Libby German and Abby Williams have hovered over the town of Delphi, Indiana since 2017. Here's what to know a suspect heads to trial.

www.usatoday.com

October 14, 2024

 

[Inthedetails]

From my understanding the state is saying RA's plan of sexually assaulting the girls' was interrupted on the "down the hill" side of the creek so he lead them across the creek to a further secluded area.

snipped

I wonder what "interrupted" him? Sounds or sights of other people? Did Libby's phone ring or make a notification noise? Second thoughts? Did the girls resist more than he expected? Scream? Tell him Libby's dad was on his way? Did he notice his gun wasn't working?

And so odd go across the water - it was a warm'ish day but the water would've been very cold.

When he was "watching the fish," was he confirming to himself where and how to cross the water? Could he see the final crime scene from the bridge?

jmo

 

[Jade]

I hope so. I'm curious how he thinks that played out.

I really hate that the P chose that as a motive. The crime was so bad in itself, he really didn't need to go there.
Now that will be forever attached to this case. What a shame. In My Opinion

The only shame is Richard Allen <modsnip - namecalling>

Richard Allen's shamed he’s such a depraved pervert he doesn’t want his mother and wife to see the demented details of what he did.



There is no shame on the girls or their loved ones. Or this case from the Prosecution.

Girl shaming for being victims of a sexual assault is an out dated perception based on misogyny in social systems.

You know the girls were played with their clothes in disarray and missing?

Public Park, a stranger, with a gun, girls forced to the woods, clothes off, changed….get it?

Perhaps read through WS especially the Crime against Children to become more familiar with sexually motived crimes against girls and how they are viewed and prosecuted in these newer days of enlightenment and protection for victims of sexual offenses.



all imo

 

[Vern]

The sworn testimony by Harshman didn't impeach the claims. The defense has sworn affidavits from an inmate companion and a C/O that RA did say those things.
Page 10

_Memorandum of Law in Support of Defendant Allen's Motion to Suppress.pdf

drive.google.com

Yes. And the Defence has also received disclosure of all of RA's 60+ confessions. They are fully aware of what details that only the killer would know that RA included amongst those other 60+ confessions. Some of them are recorded so the jury will hear thm coming from RA's own mouth.

The Defence has fought hard to try to keep those confessions out of this trial and it's not because they exonerate RA.

What is going to be really interesting is to find out the timeline and progress of these confessions. If, as the Inmate Companion alledges, RA stated he shot the girls in the back, ---- did that particular confession come before or after his wife hung up on him and contacted his attorneys?

I think it would quite telling if we find out that any confession he gave that contained 'false' details was made after his attorneys found out he was confessing and then interacted with him.

 

[Arkay]

In my own, personal opinion, If I’m a juror, I’m going to wonder how and why, if a SA was the motive, but RA was interrupted, he took the time to redress Abby and stage the crime scene the way it was staged. If he was interrupted, wouldn’t he have just high-tailed it out of there? This my opinion.

Apparently he was merely interrupted. Not stopped.

I see it as he had to pause in his actions, regroup, maybe changed his plan somewhat.

I know we all wish the interruption would have led to his abandoning his plan altogether, but tragically he was able to continue with his Plan B.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

I'm very curious how LE knows he was interrupted on near side of creek. Only thing I can think of is evidence on a phone.

RA's PCA says there were other people on the trails from 2:13 p.m. to 4:11 p.m.

 

[Inthedetails]

Apparently he was merely interrupted. Not stopped.

I see it as he had to pause in his actions, regroup, maybe changed his plan somewhat.

I know we all wish the interruption would have led to his abandoning his plan altogether, but tragically he was able to continue with his Plan B.

JMO

Good point.

Interrupted not stopped.

jmo

 

[Vern]

In my own, personal opinion, we should wait to hear what the witnesses have to say before coming to the conclusion that he is guilty of this crime.

As always, just my humble opinion.

God bless America and the freedoms we are afforded.

JMO IMO MOOOO

I would only say same thoughts are applicable to his being "not guilty" as some are convinced he "legally" and "factually" is at this point in time. The evidence will be heard at trial. If he is found guilty, there will be appeals ... and if he loses those, there will be those who will forever insist he's innocent and was set up by the state.

 

[snooptroop88]

I disagree.

For me as a juror, a lack of RA Geofence data would show that RA was telling some untruths during his chat with Conservation Officer DD.

While bits of RAs statement to him are collaborated via video and the three juveniles also stating they saw him at same place and time that he saw them, he himself hedges his bet that there would be geofence data on him via his "checking the stock ticker".

If that data doesn't show up (did he use a differen phone than the one he told DD he had that day?), what was he actually up to as it was not watching the stock ticker as he claimed. What actions of his is he actually covering up by lying bout this 'stock ticker watching' as he's still on that bridge and obviously not doing what he stated he was.

For me, this trial's all going to come down to Dulin. With RA subtly noting, oh, yeah, I had the phone on the trail ("stock ticker"), there's an almost subliminal message of trustworthiness being delivered through that piece of info (phone=trackability). No murderer would bring a phone to his murder. Tip's lost, somehow filed under his street name instead of RA's last name. (And I'll be waiting to see what is listed on that form in the blank that says "name." Alternatively, I'll be waiting to see if an interview with a conservation officer vs municipal police or sheriff impacts the way that document would be filed/stored.). The interview wasn't done in an ideal location and wasn't recorded. (You'd wonder whose idea that arrangement was, but we'll see.)

If any of these turn out to be the case-- didn't have the phone, arranged for that interview to be done in that way, "accidentally" jumbled up the info so he gave the street address as last name but now is swearing up and down that's not the case-- if any of these happened, this person knows how to read people and knows how to manipulate not just the people themselves, but actual circumstances and outcomes in a wider context. Someone like that would manufacture conflicting confessions and feign madness. Right now, my money's on him not having that phone. And he's supposedly such a family man, anyone could have an emergency, why no phone? The answer for me is because he's a murderer and he was going to be murdering two young girls that day. If you ask without being able to prove it, though-- he had it, he had the phone, the "stock ticker."

All the stars line up in the most horrible way for me if Richard Allen didn't have his phone that day.

 

[justtrish]

I'm very curious how LE knows he was interrupted on near side of creek. Only thing I can think of is evidence on a phone.

I recall other trials where someone's phone health data helped determine things like the pace a person was walking at various points. They could pinpoint when someone went from a certain pace walking to running. I recall in the Murdaugh trial they use step data and it painted a specific picture. Molly Tibbits also was running when she was abducted in a car and it showed her going extremely fast.. I think it was not step count on that one, but it showed her traveling at her running pace until something happened and then her phone was traveling like 60mph. They can get so much data from a phone. I think it's possible her phone was walking for so many minutes and then maybe it stopped before the creek for several minutes and then it's moving at a quicker pace again through the water and up the other side.. I think it's possible they can connect other phones moving into the area and that might show a possible interruption that coincides with them then moving again. Maybe RA even included in some of his many confessions that he took them from the bridge and then stopped and someone came so he was panicked and took them across the water. THAT would be hold back info that LE didn't share and only the killer would know.

 

[katydid23]

Wasn’t it just depression?

As always,JMO

Dr Wawa diagnosed him with more than simple depression, IIRC. Some form of unhealthy attachment syndrome I believe.