Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[Vern]

...
Baldwin describes Allen and his family and talk about false confessions. He tells the jury the bullet was found in the ground, that no photos of it were taken from different angles. He says the bullet was ejected through a gun but not fired, so they tested it out on a new bullet and the markings were not the same. He tells the jury it is like ‘apples and oranges’.

...

RSBM.

Perhaps Baldwin is describing an "Ellison's Orange Apple" with this statement? I always sprinkle my Granny Smith slices with a bit of salt before eating them.

Seems that a cartridge recovered from RA's home during the search warrant was also identified as cycled through Allen's seized Sig Sauer P226.

Search Warrant Return:

_Search Warrant Return.pdf

drive.google.com

Certificate of Analysis:

_Certificate of Analysis from ISP Laboratory Division – A.pdf

drive.google.com

Certificate of Analysis:

_Certificate of Analysis from ISP Laboratory Division – B.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[katydid23]

2 knives, 2 killers.

JMO

Not necessarily. The most recent stabbing case I know of is a 13 yr old who stabbed her 7 year old sister to death--USING TWO KNIVES. Plenty of cases have a perp using 2 weapons.

 

[Poedelini]

Just a thought that popped into my head. Why would he let Abby redress herself if he intended to kill and leave them there?

 

[TTF14]

Starting at the 44:55 mark, the misplaced tip that RA gave in 2017 was explained by McLeland during opening statements. He was listed as Richard Whiteman of Allen Drive. I will be anxious to hear if RA gave this incorrect name/address to the officer or if the officer wrote it down wrong.

The interview/chat wasn't recorded so, in my opinion, we will never know for sure what the answer to that is.

As always, JMO.

 

[Inthedetails]

Just a thought that popped into my head. Why would he let Abby redress herself if he intended to kill and leave them there?

Shame in the moment.

jmo

 

[FromGermany1]

A possible explanation for the defense voice questions.

Andrew Baldwin, Allen's defense attorney, put repeated emphasis on asking the witnesses how assertively Libby and Abby spoke. He's likely trying to establish how feasible it is for Allen, who is smaller and said to be soft-spoken, could have forced the two girls down the hill and killed them.

Witnesses said that Libby was outspoken and had a louder personality, while Abby was quieter, but her mother said her voice "was high-pitched when she got excited."

Day 1 of Richard Allen's Delphi murders trial brings new details, heartwrenching testimony

Follow along live throughout the trial as journalists from the Indianapolis Star and the Lafayette Journal & Courier cover the case.

www.indystar.com

"Assertively spoken" may be also his wife KA at home, I'm speculating based on my impression/thoughts. It may have been a trigger, and "softspoken" RA did prefer doing something to some girls instead of doing it to his wife for 25 years, who was his only loved-one, he had. MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Not necessarily. The most recent stabbing case I know of is a 13 yr old who stabbed her 7 year old sister to death--USING TWO KNIVES. Plenty of cases have a perp using 2 weapons.

They did take his miniature katana with a red tassel; so one ceremonial knife and one utility knife = one for each victim?

 

[WildHuncher]

I've mentioned this a few times, and think it will come up in trial....

"ammunition component characterization" found on p. 5....

Probable Cause Affidavit Filed

www.documentcloud.org

So they look at striations—stripes from scraping over surfaces—and impressed marks (dents). There’s been confusion over that.

The process of feeding a round through a semi-auto starts with stripping it from the top of the magazine and slamming it forward into the chamber. That’s going to leave little scratches. At the same time, a little hook which will later be used to extract the round has snapped around the rim at the base. That too will leave a mark.

The next time the slide gets racked, that little hook draws the cartridge out until the base bangs into a protruding rod. This collision tilts it out the ejection port. Another dent.

One may thus envision how different makes of .40 handguns produce different patterns of dents and scratches. Sig Sauer different from Smith and Wesson different from Glock, etc. The P’s claim, backed by various parties but hotly contested by others, is that individual serial numbers within makes also have unique fingerprints.

The way my mind works, RA was toast at the caliber-level match, before a single forensic test was done. Too many other lines of evidence against him already. Final nail and all that. That his model also is a match is just gravy. That his serial number even appears to be uniquely matching is “Hey! What do you need here!?”

Just for one thing, I can see the print of his Sig P226 coming through BG’s jacket. The P will never mention that, but I see it.

All MHO, of course.

 

[mrjitty]

Just another shady move by the Defense IMO. If BM is not a part of the Defense Team, why is he allowed to sit in the Defenses's assigned seats?

Can the Defense and Prosecution used their assigned number of seats to give to whomever they want? IDK

JMO

it is very difficult to square with the Judges squeeze on legit media sources by providing no media overflow room. Fine if partisan surrogates like Motta attend via typical media channels - I have no problem with it. But how on earth can it be justified that the defence has it's own Youtubers with privileged access?

Imagine if Nick invited the murdersheet on his seats and gave them privileged briefings on his strategy?

There would be outrage and quite rightly

 

[statt#1]

RSBM.

Perhaps Baldwin is describing an "Ellison's Orange Apple" with this statement? I always sprinkle my Granny Smith slices with a bit of salt before eating them.

Seems that a cartridge recovered from RA's home during the search warrant was also identified as cycled through Allen's seized Sig Sauer P226.

Search Warrant Return:

_Search Warrant Return.pdf

drive.google.com

Certificate of Analysis:

_Certificate of Analysis from ISP Laboratory Division – A.pdf

drive.google.com

Certificate of Analysis:

_Certificate of Analysis from ISP Laboratory Division – B.pdf

drive.google.com

Yes, Yes, and Yes. I keep going back to the ammunition. It is a particular brand. Ammunition cartridges are stamped on the bottom as to caliber and mfr., google it in pictures

Winchester Supreme Elite is the brand of the box retrieved from RA's home. I surmise the brand of round found at the scene to be the same.

Then there is the round count, 9 in one mag, 8 in another, one in chamber of gun, one on dresser....that leaves one missing, assuming a 20 round box of hollow point self defense ammo.

Then there is the 'component' analysis. I surmise that not only ejection/extraction markings will be brought up, but also, a match of the round found at the scene to the rounds in the magazines, the chamber of the firearm, and the box on the dresser, in terms of manufacturer and component analysis (chemical makeup and other characteristics of the powder in the individual rounds/lot of ammunition). We shall see.

 

[AugustWest]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847606294263296509

 

[steeltowngirl]

"Assertively spoken" may be also his wife KA at home, I'm speculating based on my impression/thoughts. It may have been a trigger, and "softspoken" RA did prefer doing something to some girls instead of doing it to his wife for 25 years, who was his only loved-one, he had. MOO

I’ve considered a motive of a man who felt emasculated at home, choosing to wield power and violence on the girls.

“We know this is about power to you.”
- Supt. Doug Carter

jmo

 

[Vern]

A possible explanation for the defense voice questions.

Andrew Baldwin, Allen's defense attorney, put repeated emphasis on asking the witnesses how assertively Libby and Abby spoke. He's likely trying to establish how feasible it is for Allen, who is smaller and said to be soft-spoken, could have forced the two girls down the hill and killed them.

Witnesses said that Libby was outspoken and had a louder personality, while Abby was quieter, but her mother said her voice "was high-pitched when she got excited."

Day 1 of Richard Allen's Delphi murders trial brings new details, heartwrenching testimony

Follow along live throughout the trial as journalists from the Indianapolis Star and the Lafayette Journal & Courier cover the case.

www.indystar.com

IMO,

Why didn't these victims yell or cause a commotion to save themselves as they were being kidnapped away from the bridge and subsequently murdered? My little innocent guy from CVS, (remember how innocent he looked to you during my mini opening), or even one guy, couldn't possibly have done this.

Answer: Because they had a gun pointed at them.

IMO, most people, I'd wager, do not act in their 'normal' manner when they have gun pointed at them.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

So they look at striations—stripes from scraping over surfaces—and impressed marks (dents). There’s been confusion over that.

The process of feeding a round through a semi-auto starts with stripping it from the top of the magazine and slamming it forward into the chamber. That’s going to leave little scratches. At the same time, a little hook which will later be used to extract the round has snapped around the rim at the base. That too will leave a mark.

The next time the slide gets racked, that little hook draws the cartridge out until the base bangs into a protruding rod. This collision tilts it out the ejection port. Another dent.

One may thus envision how different makes of .40 handguns produce different patterns of dents and scratches. Sig Sauer different from Smith and Wesson different from Glock, etc. The P’s claim, backed by various parties but hotly contested by others, is that individual serial numbers within makes also have unique fingerprints.

The way my mind works, RA was toast at the caliber-level match, before a single forensic test was done. Too many other lines of evidence against him already. Final nail and all that. That his model also is a match is just gravy. That his serial number even appears to be uniquely matching is “Hey! What do you need here!?”

Just for one thing, I can see the print of his Sig P226 coming through BG’s jacket. The P will never mention that, but I see it.

All MHO, of course.

I can't find the post now but yesterday someone compared the amount of bullets and empty ammo box seized in the search of RA's home and all bullets from the empty ammo box were accounted for except one. Presumably the one at the crime scene.

Does anyone else remember seeing this post on yesterday's thread?

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, Yes, and Yes. I keep going back to the ammunition. It is a particular brand. Ammunition cartridges are stamped on the bottom as to caliber and mfr., google it in pictures

Winchester Supreme Elite is the brand of the box retrieved from RA's home. I surmise the brand of round found at the scene to be the same.

Then there is the round count, 9 in one mag, 8 in another, one in chamber of gun, one on dresser....that leaves one missing, assuming a 20 round box of hollow point self defense ammo.

Then there is the 'component' analysis. I surmise that not only ejection/extraction markings will be brought up, but also, a match of the round found at the scene to the rounds in the magazines, the chamber of the firearm, and the box on the dresser, in terms of manufacturer and component analysis (chemical makeup and other characteristics of the powder in the individual rounds/lot of ammunition). We shall see.

If I’m reading this right, it looks like the round recovered from the scene is Winchester and Blazer rounds were taken from his loaded magazines.

So I don’t think there’s evidence that matching rounds were recovered from his house, but I’d love to be proven wrong.

_Certificate of Analysis from ISP Laboratory Division – B.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[MAHBOOBOO]

Never forget that lawyers are like the Aes Sedai of the legal world; they can lie to you without actually lying to you. They twist words and then let you come to your own assumption. When Baldwin says "two weapons were used to kill the girls" it doesn't necessarily mean that two weapons were physically used to kill the girls. One weapon could be the knife (or boxcutter) that did the killing, and one weapon could be the gun that was used to gain control of the girls which led to their being killed, one weapon could have been a stick. We just don't know yet, but we will find out.

 

[Bbgiraffe]

If I’m reading this right, it looks like the round recovered from the scene is “Blazer,” and not Winchester.

So I don’t think there’s evidence that matching rounds were recovered from his house, but I’d love to be proven wrong.

_Certificate of Analysis from ISP Laboratory Division – B.pdf

drive.google.com

Thanks! I couldn't find the post that was talking about it yesterday but I wanted to go back and read the info about what was taken from his house again.

 

[TTF14]

it is very difficult to square with the Judges squeeze on legit media sources by providing no media overflow room. Fine if partisan surrogates like Motta attend via typical media channels - I have no problem with it. But how on earth can it be justified that the defence has it's own Youtubers with privileged access?

Imagine if Nick invited the murdersheet on his seats and gave them privileged briefings on his strategy?

There would be outrage and quite rightly

Are there any currently-licensed prosecutors who are also YouTubers following/commenting on this case? I know NM has talked to at least one "guilter" YouTuber, but he's not an attorney.

As always, JMO.

 

[Megnut]

it is very difficult to square with the Judges squeeze on legit media sources by providing no media overflow room. Fine if partisan surrogates like Motta attend via typical media channels - I have no problem with it. But how on earth can it be justified that the defence has it's own Youtubers with privileged access?

Imagine if Nick invited the murdersheet on his seats and gave them privileged briefings on his strategy?

There would be outrage and quite rightly

And used that same insider to skirt the gag order.

Brazen.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

So I am really trying to understand how the defence saw fit to file that Franks motion accusing Ligget of lying about SCs evidence when Nick has this to say in opening (source Murdersheet). No wonder the Judge triggered them when she found out about the leaked crime scene photos from a guy who turned out to be their trusted consultant.

Just wow.

Sarah Carbaugh will testify that the man she saw when she passed while driving looked muddy and bloody and like he had slaughtered a pig