Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #200

[shonyakay]

That's true. The actual time of arrival has been disputed. I believe the Ds will go deep into the timeline and we'll learn a more accurate time of arrival from their phone logs.

Wouldn't phones have been included in the review of the electronic records cited in the PCA?

Lawyer Lee says the defense said in their opening that Kelsi dropped the girls' off at 1:47 p.m.
To me that does correlate with Kelsi's car being seen leaving at 1:49 p.m. on the HHSC if she had the car idle for a couple of minutes while she let them out and watched them walk off.

 

[MassGuy]

There is no question there were issues with the investigation. Yes, that happens in just about every case, but shocking for a case this high profile. They literally had a video of the murderer, and no one recognized him or his clothing. I truly believed it would be solved within days or weeks, but that's obviously not what happened.

Years went by, press conferences were held, and new information was released to generate tips. Yet this case wasn't broken by those efforts. It was broken by something they already had; a glaring piece of evidence. They had a statement from a man who admitted to being there that day, around the same time that the girls were there.

The follow up interview was damning, as Allen admitted to wearing the very type of clothing that witnesses saw him wearing, and that video captured the killer wearing. That provided the probable cause necessary to execute the search warrant that ultimately linked his gun to the unspent round found between the girls' bodies.

We don't know what else that search warrant turned up, especially the results of any testing. But imagine how much more fruitful it would have been had they done it years before. It appears that he even kept the jacket in question, which would no doubt have been covered in blood after the murders. They very well could have had him dead to rights, where there would be no room for any debate as to his guilt or innocence.

So yes, this was a flawed investigation. At the same time though, it was a thorough one. They looked at RL very hard, executing search warrants on his property, and pushing as far as they could until they reached a dead end. They likewise honed in on several other potential suspects, to include Kegan Kline, who looked really good for it in many respects. Yet they didn't pull the trigger, because the evidence was not there.

I do not believe for a second that hair grasped in the hand of a murder victim was not tested. Even if they knew it was female, it's potentially a link that could immediately bring a killer from the darkness, into the light. I think once this is addressed by the prosecution, it will show that it was in fact connected to Libby's female relatives, and they stopped at that point.

Allen says he was there. Witnesses say he was there. His gun says he was there. He was dressed like BG. It's pretty hard to claim investigators had tunnel vision here.

 

[sunshineray]

Interesting. Which side said the search concluded at 2am? I can't remember.

I don't know if both mentioned it? I just found it interesting that more lighting was asked for at 2:30am because Libby's phone pinged. An then MP told a very upset, because they were stopping, BP that in fact they weren't stopping.

 

[ClearAhead]

Interesting. Which side said the search concluded at 2am? I can't remember.

This Feb 14th date can’t be right, it must’ve been the 13th.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 2 testimonies

Day 2 of the Delphi Murders trial begins at 9 a.m. Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for the latest updates from the courtroom.

www.wishtv.com

“Mullin said when he left the dispatch center at 2 a.m. on Feb. 14, he told the court he did not believe anyone had hurt the girls and believed they would return home.”

 

[Arkay]

Part of the angst is due to the fact that Judge Gull was/is a proponent for livestreaming trials. Just not this one.

You have a very credible link from
March 2022.
I have no doubt that JG signed onto that willingly.

IMO what’s different about this one is obviously the publicity this case has engendered.

I live far away from Indiana and suspect that only local citizens were familiar with Judge Gull prior to her getting this case.

I imagine that the national and international publicity and widespread interest in this case has led her to tighten the rules. NOT because she is taking sides in this case.

Many judges as well as the public recall the circus that Judge Ito allowed the O.J. case to devolve into, and strain to avoid the same when their case is a media focal point.

Even more so than in Ito’s day which was before social media, podcasts and influencers.

JMO

 

[Melted]

I think it's very clear it was familial female DNA. The defense even admitted that.

If it had been unknown, the P would have continued with the Genealogy testing to find out whose it was. But once they learned it was a close female relative, it was a dead end. They have a video of the person with a gun who ordered them down the hill. It wasn't Libby's female cousin or Auntie.

If they know who the hair belongs to why are they rushing to test the families dna again?

JMO

 

[Warwick7]

Handful of hair? Who said that?

Nope, no handful of hair. All msm is stating that it was a strand.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I kept being told about the brilliance of the D.

JMO

Yes, poor Abby and Libby were murdered but whether or not it was RA is yet to be determined. With respect to the “Bad Apple Defense team” I beg to differ. Many an innocently accused individual would thank their lucky stars to get them! JMHO

I hope someday an innocently accused individual will get them! JMHO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't know if both mentioned it? I just found it interesting that more lighting was asked for at 2:30am because Libby's phone pinged. An then MP told a very upset, because they were stopping, BP that in fact they weren't stopping.

Yes.
The sheriff said he was stopping the search, but the search continued with friends and family.

 

[sunshineray]

I think there's a lot of people who are forgetting what a defence team is here to do.

They are here to ensure their client gets a fair trial and the the judicial process is handled within the eyes of the law at all times. They are also here to create doubt.

It's the prosecution who have to prove guilt and if there are any holes to expose a decent defence team of course is going to try and poke through those holes.

Yes they're allowed to be very zealous but have, IMO, time and time again abused that directive and ventured into unethical. That's all just my opinion.

 

[iamshadow21]

This Feb 14th date can’t be right, it must’ve been the 13th.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 2 testimonies

Day 2 of the Delphi Murders trial begins at 9 a.m. Saturday. Follow WISH-TV's live blog for the latest updates from the courtroom.

www.wishtv.com

“Mullin said when he left the dispatch center at 2 a.m. on Feb. 14, he told the court he did not believe anyone had hurt the girls and believed they would return home.”

Um, why? 2am is after midnight.

 

[Vern]

Can someone please clear something up for me?
Did the search parties search the area where Abby and Libby were eventually found BEFORE they were found? In other words, did they not find their bodies under the tree the first time they looked there? OR did they not search that area until they actually found Abby and Libby? That would be the first time that area was searched when they found the girls.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank you,
Tricia

Here's the Trial Testimony thus far Tricia from the first officer on scene (and the individual who searched the south side [the abduction side of the bridge] that first night:

Day 1 of Richard Allen's Delphi murders trial brings new details, heartwrenching testimony

Follow along live throughout the trial as journalists from the Indianapolis Star and the Lafayette Journal & Courier cover the case.

www.indystar.com

"Carroll County Sheriff's Office Deputy Mitch Catron, who has worked for the county for 12 years, said in the day's final testimony that he responded to a call about the missing girls around 5:15 p.m. that day.

Using large maps of the area around the Monon High Bridge and Deer Creek, attorneys made Catron point out how he approached the trail from the south on a private drive that led him through the woods and, eventually, to the property of Brad Weber.
...
McLeland, the lead prosecutor, asked of Weber: "Was he covered in sweat? Was he covered in blood? Did he look disheveled in any way?" Matron said no to each question.

Weber allowed the officer to search his property, though the defense noted that Catron didn't look inside two outbuildings on the site. He said he likely stayed for less than 10 minutes.

Although the trees were bare in February, Catron said he saw nothing out of place when he searched the woods near Weber's property and along the private drive."

I've seen stuff in cyberland over the years that stated that "private property was searched". Officer Catron does mention his search of private property that first night, but the property was the Weber's as per his testimony and not RLs where the girls remains were found. Nor does Catron testify to going down from the driveway and searching along the river proper.

 

[iamshadow21]

If they know who the hair belongs to why are they rushing to test the families dna again?

JMO

So that they can show a jury that they know exactly who it belongs to, and that that person is not a suspect in the murders.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Interesting. Which side said the search concluded at 2am? I can't remember.

Although I cannot recite the exact wording from that time, I remember being in complete disbelief when I read that LE chose to leave the area due to the darkness the plummeting temperatures, leaving only the family members there to continue searching that night. I wondered why they didn’t get emergency lighting out there to flood the area and bring portable heaters for searches to warm up to during the night.
At the time the girls were considered “missing” and the family was contacting their friends by phone to see if perhaps Abby and Libby were at their homes. So to now read otherwise, either I was completely wrong at the time or the details changed for some reason. IMO

 

[Melted]

That’s really what it comes down to; showing that the markings found on that unspent round could only have been made by RA’s gun, and not by any other gun.

For that, I expect them to explain the science behind this, and how accurate such a conclusion would be.

I would hardly call it science, it is more of an opinion.

Even on the document it states “The interpretation of identification is subjective in nature.”

Jmo

 

[MiniMoo]

A hair - singular.

A borrowed hoodie from KG.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have medium to long hair, and I get hairs on the inside of my jumpers and hoodies all the time.

And sometimes, I shove my hand through a sleeve, and occasionally, it'll come out with a hair wrapped over my fingers.

We know Abby redressed. Possibly one of the last things she did was push her hands though those sleeves of that borrowed hoodie.

MOO

I have medium to long hair as well and although have found it on clothing for sure I can 100% say I have never had any of it, whether one or more, wrap around a finger or fingers when putting on long sleeved clothing or short.

However, I have caught hair if I'm zipping from the back.

That is whether it is straight, wavy or
curly.

JMOE = Just My Own Experience.

 

[Warwick7]

There is no question there were issues with the investigation. Yes, that happens in just about every case, but shocking for a case this high profile. They literally had a video of the murderer, and no one recognized him or his clothing. I truly believed it would be solved within days or weeks, but that's obviously not what happened.

Years went by, press conferences were held, and new information was released to generate tips. Yet this case wasn't broken by those efforts. It was broken by something they already had; a glaring piece of evidence. They had a statement from a man who admitted to being there that day, around the same time that the girls were there.

The follow up interview was damning, as Allen admitted to wearing the very type of clothing that witnesses saw him wearing, and that video captured the killer wearing. That provided the probable cause necessary to execute the search warrant that ultimately linked his gun to the unspent round found between the girls' bodies.

We don't know what else that search warrant turned up, especially the results of any testing. But imagine how much more fruitful it would have been had they done it years before. It appears that he even kept the jacket in question, which would no doubt have been covered in blood after the murders. They very well could have had him dead to rights, where there would be no room for any debate as to his guilt or innocence.

So yes, this was a flawed investigation. At the same time though, it was a thorough one. They looked at RL very hard, executing search warrants on his property, and pushing as far as they could until they reached a dead end. They likewise honed in on several other potential suspects, to include Kegan Kline, who looked really good for it in many respects. Yet they didn't pull the trigger, because the evidence was not there.

I do not believe for a second that hair grasped in the hand of a murder victim was not tested. Even if they knew it was female, it's potentially a link that could immediately bring a killer from the darkness, into the light. I think once this is addressed by the prosecution, it will show that it was in fact connected to Libby's female relatives, and they stopped at that point.

Allen says he was there. Witnesses say he was there. His gun says he was there. He was dressed like BG. It's pretty hard to claim investigators had tunnel vision here.

Something I've often thought about....I know all my husband's jackets, coats, hats, even his jeans etc...

If my husband did this horrific thing, if I was looking at the news and saw that picture of that man on the bridge. I would know instantly it was him.

First it would be shock, then confusion then fear.....

That said, I would still know it was him. Wonder what went thru his wife's mind?.....

 

[AugustWest]

Yes, the science is always only as good as the examiner. The examiner is either right or wrong. Probability doesn't work with toolmark analysis like with DNA, where probability can be measured to billions of degrees of certainty.

This report is a good read on toolmark analysis.

PCAST Releases Report on Forensic Science in Criminal Courts

President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology recommends actions to strengthen forensic science and promote its more rigorous use in the courtroom.

obamawhitehouse.archives.gov

 

[Ravenmoon]

Can someone please clear something up for me?
Did the search parties search the area where Abby and Libby were eventually found BEFORE they were found? In other words, did they not find their bodies under the tree the first time they looked there? OR did they not search that area until they actually found Abby and Libby? That would be the first time that area was searched when they found the girls.
I hope that makes sense.
Thank you,
Tricia

Throughout the years I have seen absolutely nothing to back up claims that Ron Logan's property was searched.

We know that areas of the trail were looked at, that they may have been near KW property ( so close, but NOT on the area that the girls were found) and even some parts of town. If there is proof that that specific area was looked at, I can't help but assume that the Defense would be all over it!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

A hair - singular.

A borrowed hoodie from KG.

I don't know about anyone else, but I have medium to long hair, and I get hairs on the inside of my jumpers and hoodies all the time.

And sometimes, I shove my hand through a sleeve, and occasionally, it'll come out with a hair wrapped over my fingers.

We know Abby redressed. Possibly one of the last things she did was push her hands though those sleeves of that borrowed hoodie.

MOO

Apparently I was misinformed about the amount of hair tangled around Abby’s fingers.