Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #201

[ClearAhead]

I realize that. I can't show one for the crime scene because we don't have one. That information comes from the Franks Memo. I'm just pointing out that the CoC is apparently missing from the items taken from his home also.

I apologize for the confusion. Isn't the CoC form the same for any evidence taken from the scene?

Yes it would be the same however as the Chain of Custody log was never publicly released, it’s impossible to critique it. I think we need to wait for the trial to roll onward rather than drawing conclusions based on partial information or relying on what’s contained in FM, already proven not to be totally accurate. JMO

 

[Breezymcdreamypants]

I'm sorry but there's no way I could believe the state of Indiana at this point, there have been so many investigational miscues and secrecy regardless of what law enforcement claims is reasonable doubt in my mind I'm

 

[shonyakay]

We know from Cicero's testimony at the 3 day hearing that Libby's body was moved some distance because she was drug through her own blood pooling.. so I think it's very possible when he was trying to drag her he would be pulling her toward where he was standing and if he's leaning forward he could easily drop that bullet and pull her body right over top of it without realizing it. IMO

Libby was moved 7 to 8 feet from the large blood pool and the unspent bullet was found two feet from her body.

 

[arielilane]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: A CSI on scene is “unaware” of any DNA at the #Delphi double murders scene that ties Richard Allen to the scene.



Last edited6:32 PM · Oct 21, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848492605870637506

 

[MassGuy]

@KylaBRussell

#NEW: A CSI on scene is “unaware” of any DNA at the #Delphi double murders scene that ties Richard Allen to the scene.



Last edited6:32 PM · Oct 21, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848492605870637506

Again, it’s not like this guy would necessarily know that answer, but I absolutely do not believe DNA evidence connects him in any way.

We’d know.

 

[arielilane]

As the trial of murder suspect Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi Murders, entered its third day, defense attorneys have sought to limit jury's access to video evidence. The trial is expected to continue into mid-November.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848496764678033436

 

[Vern]

The Chain of Custody Log is a separate record from the search warrant.

Indeed it is.

And of special note regarding the bullet is the Defence Team cross examined Duane Datzman - the ISP Crime Scene technician who took the photos at the crime scene ... including that of the bullet.

Surely, if there were any evidence of that bullet NOT being at the scene on the day that Abby & Libby were discovered, the Defense would have questioned CST Datzman about WHEN he took that photo. BUT they did not. Wonder why not? IMO, like everything else they've wildly theorized out there ... they have the discovery and knew and know the answer to that question already and it doesn't "fit" with whatever their defence theory of the day is now.

Why am I not surprised.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 3 | Jury sees graphic crime scene photos

Jurors were shown graphic crime scene photos in an emotional third day of testimony in the Delphi murders trial.

www.wrtv.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

That’s not chain of custody, though. Thats just wanting extra information that doesn’t exist. Chain of custody would be them extracting the bullet, putting it in an evidence bag, annotating what it was, where it was found and by who, along with signatures and a seal on the bag. From that point forward, if the seal is tampered with without it being signed off on, it becomes a chain of custody issue.

Now, if the allegation is that police were forging evidence logs, bags, chain of custody forms… then that’s an entirely different set of circumstances that has not been even minimally shown to have occurred at this point.

All my opinion.

The D's point in the FM was that there was no CoC turned over to them.

I showed the receipt and return of the search warrant on his home to show that there apparently were no CoC filed with that State's exhibit, either.

Since the P has lined up CoC witnesses, I'm going to assume the paperwork was not done.

5.7.24 Richard Allen Motions Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Boxer]

Of course not - if they had DNA they wouldn't be focussing on a discharged bullet.

IMO, very few killers leave DNA anymore, if they can possibly help it.

JMO

Agreed. The cases solved recently are old cold cases before general criminal cognizance of how to avoid leaving DNA.

 

[MassGuy]

To me, it sounds like it was inadvertently stepped on hard, like during the exertion of dragging a dead body and branches.

jmo

I guess the scenario that makes the most sense to me, is that he stepped on it with his heal, which could have pushed the tip into the ground and lifted it into an almost vertical position.

It’s entirely possible that an investigator could have accidentally done that themselves, especially with leaves on the ground.

 

[Arkay]

The black marks were placed over the photos by the State to cover private areas of the victim nothing more.

I’m really grateful that this was done.

I’d expected that the jury would be shown the entirety of what was seen by LE, so that they could fully grasp how these young girls were humiliated as well as murdered.

Thankfully it was deemed unnecessary to show Libby’s private areas as she lay dead and helpless. I’m sure the jury was fully capable of perceiving what occurred even with modesty bars.

Thankful that the girls did not have to lose their last inch of dignity before strangers, and the families did not have to see their girls bare (Libby, at least) in front of all.

That said, I personally would not be able to look upon those pictures of them dead, not at all.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks. I knew that photos got leaked to YouTubers or something, and thought he was another one of those.

Nope, that came years and years later, through a non lawyer associate of the DT taking photos of discovery evidence at the law office and disseminating them through the internet.

MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

But they do have proof it came from the crime scene, right? There has to be something even if there are no photos.

Does anyone know if there is anything about it definitely being found there even if there are no photos of it being in the ground or removed?

I would think photos of it being recovered would not only provide a timestamp, but also that it was in the ground in comparison to on the ground. Total clarity.

JMO MOO JMT

Yes, they have Photo(s) shown today according to the updated news for the trial.

Law enforcement takes stand in Delphi double murder trial

In a *lengthy testimony -- Sgt. Jason Page, a crime scene investigator with ISP -- explained how he photographed the scene and victims.The prosecution -- using

www.wsbt.com

 

[arielilane]

Again, it’s not like this guy would necessarily know that answer, but I absolutely do not believe DNA evidence connects him in any way.

We’d know.

It beginning to look that way. Still early in the trial, though. moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1848498179014332780

From your post:

Russ and Max said it was clear the sticks were also arranged in a specific way on Abby and Libby.

They also clarified there was a photo of the bullet in the ground but that was the only photo. No photos of it coming out of the ground, you can’t see the end of it, defense hit hard on chain of custody from in the ground to into evidence.

 

[shonyakay]

But they do have proof it came from the crime scene, right? There has to be something even if there are no photos.

Does anyone know if there is anything about it definitely being found there even if there are no photos of it being in the ground or removed?

I would think photos of it being recovered would not only provide a timestamp, but also that it was in the ground in comparison to on the ground. Total clarity.

JMO MOO JMT

Wait for more testimony. Holeman says the bullet was photographed, logged, and placed into evidence.

 

[MassGuy]

From your post:

I could definitely agree that they should have taken another photograph once it was out of ground, but this "chain of custody argument" based on that is flimsy at best. That's what logs, seals, and labels are for.

 

[Vern]

IIRC and maybe others here also remember that KG mentioned this disturbed ground by the end of the bridge as well. Curious what caused it.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 3 blog

Follow the trial of Richard Allen, accused of the Delphi Murders, as he faces charges for the deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German.

wishtv.com

Giancola began looking for the girls at midnight, and couldn’t see much in the woods even with using a flashlight. He noted to the jury that he saw a “disturbance” near the end of the high bridge where bare ground could be seen. He said he pointed it out to a nearby firefighter, but eventually ended his search at 2 a.m. Feb. 14.

IMO that's probably where the girls were forced "down the hill" from the end of the bridge/trail.

 

[ClearAhead]

Indeed it is.

And of special note regarding the bullet is the Defence Team cross examined Duane Datzman - the ISP Crime Scene technician who took the photos at the crime scene ... including that of the bullet.

Surely, if there were any evidence of that bullet NOT being at the scene on the day that Abby & Libby were discovered, the Defense would have questioned CST Datzman about WHEN he took that photo. BUT they did not. Wonder why not? IMO, like everything else they've wildly theorized out there ... they have the discovery and knew and know the answer to that question already and it doesn't "fit" with whatever their defence theory of the day is now.

Why am I not surprised.

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 3 | Jury sees graphic crime scene photos

Jurors were shown graphic crime scene photos in an emotional third day of testimony in the Delphi murders trial.

www.wrtv.com

Another thing, if the D thought there was a valid chain of custody issue, rather than seeking experts to refute the similarity in the markings to RA’s gun, they would’ve filed a motion stating the bullet to be inadmissible evidence on those grounds. I don’t recall that happening and if not, there’s nothing irregular about the chain of custody other than the D blowing around some smoke about photos. JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

IMO that's probably where the girls were forced "down the hill" from the end of the bridge/trail.

Possibly, physically forced ie pushed I wonder?

Perhaps in one of RA’s confessions he’s filled in the details.