Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #202

[iamshadow21]

They were very grievous by my standards.

Per the diagram, both of Libby's carotid arteries were severed. Her left jugular vein was also severed.

'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Yeah, I absolutely agree.

Yes, the medical examiner said five to ten minutes to die, but during that time, she would have lost much of her blood volume and been rendered unconscious because no oxygenated blood was getting to her brain.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Libby....4 x's!
Libby....4 x's! Maybe 5 x's......!!!!
What rage he had for Libby...
This pi$$es me off!!!!!!
He hated her, singled her out, murdered her!
I absolutely hate this!!!
:0(

Ironically, that resulted in a death that was likely faster than what Libby went through.

I think the only way we’ll have a clue as to why he inflicted more injuries on her is if his confessions address that.

 

[aliciacstone]

Unfortunately, if something more significant existed at the time of his arrest it would have been in the probable cause affidavit. The reason for the arrest years later is that an early interview with him was misfiled. When they found it, they realized they had someone they needed to follow up with, as he admitted to being there that day. A follow-up interview led to Allen revealing more information, to include the fact that he was dressed like BG that day. That, coupled with the timeline provided by Allen and witnesses, led to the search warrant that resulted in the gun being found that matched the unspent round.

So we have that, likely information developed after his arrest that we are not aware of, and the dozens of confessions.

That round is likely as close to a smoking gun as we are going to get, and it's something that is going to be hotly disputed.

This makes sense! Thank you for breaking down… I guess it is me being more hopeful there is something more solid to come. The round will be disputed for sure.. the confessions are harder to explain IMO. This case has so many layers.

 

[rez125]

Yeah, I absolutely agree.

Yes, the medical examiner said five to ten minutes to die, but during that time, she would have lost much of her blood volume and been rendered unconscious because no oxygenated blood was getting to her brain.

MOO

Where did the blood go then?

Per reports (LL being one) the pools of blood in the photos they saw the other day did not show enough blood on the ground.

 

[Vern]

I just read an article where the 10:32 pm power off of phone conclusion was "premature." They did so many dumps of Libby's phone things kept changing. Just like the murder weapon. sigh. JMO

Cecil stated he no longer believes the phone died at 10:32 p.m. and called his previous conclusion “premature.” Additional information led Cecil to believe the phone stayed on until 4:34 a.m. when it received the numerous text messages.
Much more at link

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-phone-pings-cast-doubt-on-defenses-alternate-site-killing-theory/

As per the Three Day Hearings, the complaint from the Defence was that they had not received the Cellbrite Data .... we talked all about it here on the site ... about that "missing disclosure". Remember??

Only it wasn't. At that time, Cellbrite had upgraded their data program and was running the phone through it again to see if they could glean anything new from it (apparently they DID!!). The Defence actually had received the data analysis from 2017 and were well aware that a new analysis was underway due to program upgrades because it is the Defence that actually brings that factoid up. I have zero doubt that the Defence has already received that updated analysis too and knows that phone was not turned back on exactly as was testified to today.

The Prosecution stated then that they could not give them a report they did not yet received because that new analysis was not yet back and Judge Gull ordered the Prosecution to had it over to them as soon as it was received.




Cecil Testimony:

_Testimony of First Sergeant Christopher Cecil Given at Hearing on Motion in Limine Held August 1, 2024.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Melted]

This crime scene makes no sense to me. The doctor testified that it would have taken Abby 5-10 minutes to die from her wound and she “definitely” would have had time to respond. Yet there is no blood on her hands when a natural response would be to grab the wound and all of her blood was pooled in one location. They said no blunt force trauma so she wasn’t knocked unconscious beforehand.

The only way this makes sense is she was tied up.

Moo

 

[MassGuy]

Where did the blood go then?

Per reports (LL being one) the pools of blood in the photos they saw the other day did not show enough blood on the ground.

Into the ground, which was described by investigators as being "saturated." It was also found on trees, and their bodies. The killer would have also certainly been covered in blood.

Clear and irrefutable evidence that the girls were murdered right there.

 

[ClearAhead]

I would go with experience plus doing it during broad daylight was totally brazen.

JMO MOO JMT

I’m not sure it required experience. RA was entirely familiar with the trails so he’d be aware of sight lines and the physical features of the area. Coward he was, he chose children as his victims allegedly threatening them with a gun knowing there’d be a high likelihood they’d be compliant, then viciously slaughtered them. Had he been experienced he probably would’ve chosen a less public spot, kept his mouth shut and never would’ve been arrested. JMO

 

[Web_Sleuth]

This crime scene makes no sense to me. The doctor testified that it would have taken Abby 5-10 minutes to die from her wound and she “definitely” would have had time to respond. Yet there is no blood on her hands when a natural response would be to grab the wound and all of her blood was pooled in one location. They said no blunt force trauma so she wasn’t knocked unconscious beforehand.

The only way this makes sense is she was tied up.

Moo

This is what I am wondering also - did we hear her arms were inside the sweatshirt or was that just rumor?

 

[Seattle1]

That's a wide range of knives, but I think because these are more slashing type injuries as opposed to what we think of when we think of stabbing, that makes sense.

He cut Libby 4 or 5 times, I think he was probably more comfortable with the weapon he used on her even though the pathologist isn't sure what it was..., whereas Abby was cut once -- only 2 inches long and not deep -- barely 1 inch.

 

[iamshadow21]

Where did the blood go then?

Per reports (LL being one) the pools of blood in the photos they saw the other day did not show enough blood on the ground.

Into the soil? I imagine it was saturated to a depth of inches. Because soil is permeable by liquids, it goes downwards as well as outwards. Unlike a hard surface like concrete or hardwood, earth will absorb as much liquid as you give it until it's practically a liquid itself. On a hard surface, blood can only spread outwards, but earth doesn't have that problem.

MOO

 

[Warwick7]

Ironically, that resulted in a death that was likely faster than what Libby went through.

I think the only way we’ll have a clue as to why he inflicted more injuries on her is if his confessions address that.

BBM
This, is the only thing that brings me relief. I hope it was fast and quick....

But, still....I hate him......

I don't normally do this. But, I have spent part of this evening crying.

Kelyse Bereth hurt me hard, Heather Elvis scared me to no end.

But these girls....bother my soul...

Everyone watch over your young ones. It's not the world we grew up in....

 

[twall]

As per the Three Day Hearings, the complaint from the Defence was that they had not received the Cellbrite Data .... we talked all about it here on the site ... about that "missing disclosure". Remember??

Only it wasn't. At that time, Cellbrite had upgraded their data program and was running the phone through it again to see if they could glean anything new from it (apparently they DID!!). They actually had received the data analysis from 2017 and were well aware that a new analysis was underway due to program upgrades. have ero doubt that the Defence has already received that updated analysis and knows that phone was not turned back on exactly as testified to today.

The Prosecution stated then that they could not give them a report they did not yet received because that new analysis was not yet back.


View attachment 540120

Cecil Testimony:

_Testimony of First Sergeant Christopher Cecil Given at Hearing on Motion in Limine Held August 1, 2024.pdf

drive.google.com

Yes, I remember. What does that have to do with my post? I was pointing out to the poster I replied to Libby's phone did not turn off at 10:32 pm so it wouldn't keep.getting passed around as fact when it isn't.

 

[rez125]

Into the ground, which was described by investigators as being "saturated." It was also found on trees, and their bodies. The killer would have also certainly been covered in blood.

Clear and irrefutable evidence that the girls were murdered right there.

Was this given as testimony the other day? The ground saturation part.

I must have missed it.

Humans have around 7 litres of blood, the amount described on their body and the tree was visible, but not huge amounts.

 

[iamshadow21]

Was this given as testimony the other day? The ground saturation part.

I must have missed it.

Humans have around 7 litres of blood, the amount described on their body and the tree was visible, but not huge amounts.

Sgt. Jason Page, here.

Here's what happened in the Delphi murders trial

A jury found Richard Allen guilty of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German. Here is what happened each day of the trial.

www.wthr.com

 

[JAY CLUCK]

This crime scene makes no sense to me. The doctor testified that it would have taken Abby 5-10 minutes to die from her wound and she “definitely” would have had time to respond. Yet there is no blood on her hands when a natural response would be to grab the wound and all of her blood was pooled in one location. They said no blunt force trauma so she wasn’t knocked unconscious beforehand.

The only way this makes sense is she was tied up.

Moo

Or in the creek. I’m starting to think she got cut in the creek, not “washed.” I think they ran and killer got Abby then caught Libbie on the other side and since she was second got the worst of it. Drags them both over. Anxiety sets in he dresses Abby. Imo

 

[Arkay]

Where did the blood go then?

Per reports (LL being one) the pools of blood in the photos they saw the other day did not show enough blood on the ground.

Into the ground, which was described by investigators as being "saturated." It was also found on trees, and their bodies. The killer would have also certainly been covered in blood.

Clear and irrefutable evidence that the girls were murdered right there.

Into the soil? I imagine it was saturated to a depth of inches. Because soil is permeable by liquids, it goes downwards as well as outwards. Unlike a hard surface like concrete or hardwood, earth will absorb as much liquid as you give it until it's practically a liquid itself. On a hard surface, blood can only spread outwards, but earth doesn't have that problem.

MOO

Exactly. Just like when you water a plant. Seems very basic to me.

 

[Seattle1]

Into the ground, which was described by investigators as being "saturated." It was also found on trees, and their bodies. The killer would have also certainly been covered in blood.

Clear and irrefutable evidence that the girls were murdered right there.

Abby only had one, 2 inch wound on her neck. She was wearing a black sweatshirt (over-sized) which likely absorbed most of it.

 

[SleutherGirl]

Exactly. Just like when you water a plant. Seems very basic to me.

Also, the river is right there.
Edit to say: I meant creek.

 

[iamshadow21]

Exactly. Just like when you water a plant. Seems very basic to me.

Yeah, I'm a gardener, too. It takes a LOT of saturation before water will just pool on the surface. Blood is mostly water.

MOO