Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[photographer4]

Nothing, nada, zilch. IMO

So far, the State has nothing imo. The witnesses don't even seem to have described anyone who resembled RA!! MOOO

 

[MiniMoo]

Per the link…during the original 2017 interview

“Dulin testified that Allen met him in the parking lot and they spoke for around ten minutes. He did not record the interview, but took notes on the back of the lead sheet.

He confirmed that his name was Richard Allen, not Richard Allen Whiteman.…”

“Dulin said he collected Allen’s cell phone information, including the MEID number— a specific identifying number for each cell phone.”

“Dulin said he typed up his notes, adding Allen’s drivers license and DMV photo and submitted the packet to detectives. He was not assigned to do a further follow up.”

I'm wondering if this must be what the tip narrative is about for February 16th, 2017.

Seems like they may have just simply crossed each other's paths that day and Richard Allen complied by giving different forms of ID to verify himself.

Standard procedure maybe.

What is interesting to me as that he did this after the release of those images from LE not before.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Huge volumes of information is a perpetual problem in investigations that garner a lot of public attention.

Computerisation helped with problems caused by the tons of paper generated in inquires like the Yorkshire Ripper, but any system is vulnerable at the point of information coming in.

This action, the surname was actually the street name, and at some point, it was labelled 'cleared'. That makes it invisible until someone actually looks at that report with human eyes and goes, wait a minute.

MOO

Makes one wonder what other things weren’t looked at with human eyes.
IMO

 

[Vaderman]

Ok, so the fact that the round in the keepsake box was the same brand as the one found at the scene, is obviously interesting. I figured it was just another round of the same caliber, of the (different) brand found in his weapon, and in magazines.

Ever since that keepsake box with the bullet was revealed, I wondered.

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks for this little detail. I've been saying for quite some time that ammo. brand found at the scene was unique, and that it matches in this instance isn't terribly surprising to me. Often with 'carry' ammo., a person uses the same brand for years.

I'd suspect more testimony relative to he ammo in the magazines, the chamber of the sig. etc. that were obtained during the search.

Horribly written, but if you combine this with the reporting that the keepsake round matches the crime scene round, then we're talking about a .40 Winchester. The other ammunition they seized (one was chambered if I recall from the documents), was Blazer.

Liggett said they found Allen's .40 Sig Sauer handgun in a bedroom nightstand. Liggett said that was the same caliber of bullet found between the bodies of Abby and Libby.
Liggett said they found another .40 Winchester round in a keepsake box in a bedroom dresser. They found more ammunition, .40 Blazer.

Sheriff admits Richard Allen doesn't match witness descriptions of 'bridge guy' | Day 6 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[Megnut]

And now BG comes into focus. LE worked from the CS and once they had a name -- Richard Allen OF Whiteman -- they could work from RA back toward BG.

What they've collected in the meantime completes the picture.

The man.
The car.
The timing.
The cartridge.
The Carhartt.

And now the confessions.

Who is on the bridge?

Richard Allen.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Makes one wonder what other things weren’t looked at with human eyes.
IMO

Who knows.

I think that there are things missed in most endeavours. We can't switch to relying on algorithms but neither can we assume that just because a person looked at something or actioned it that nothing was missed, because humans are fallible. The stakes are just higher when the subject is homicide.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Holy Crap! “It doesn’t matter. It’s over.”

After a 15-minute break, the trial resumed with Indiana State Police Trooper David Vito taking the stand. He’s served as an investigator in the Delphi Murders.

Vito was involved in searching the home of suspect Richard Allen on Oct. 13, 2022, and taking photos there that day and other days. Jurors were shown the photos.

Some photos showed a workbench at Allen’s home that contained knives and box cutters. Knives were also photographed in the master bedroom.

The photos included a gun and ammunition found in Allen’s home. A closet gun case was also photographed.

Coats, including a blue jacket, also were photographed.

Some items, including two dozen box-cutter knives, were taken to a state police post.

Vito, in response a question from defense attorney Jennifer Auger, said he was not aware of any connections to the murdered girls, Abby Williams and Libby German, from the blue jacket, his car, or the knives.

Next to testify was Indiana State Police Lt. Jerry Holeman. He supervised the search of Allen’s home on Oct. 13, 2022. He did an initial walk-through of the home, and then waited outside while police searched inside. He sat inside a car with Allen while the search was underway.

At one point while Holeman and Allen were in the car, the lieutenant asked if Allen wanted to fill out a form for items damaged in the search. Holeman said Allen responded, “It doesn’t matter. It’s over.”

Holeman then opened a box containing the gun found at Allen’s home. He gave it a quick check to assure it was safe to display to jurors.

On cross-examination, Holeman confirmed that Allen was a suspect at the time his home was searched. Holeman also noted that a bullet can be damaged when it’s handled for investigations.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

Delphi Murders trial continues with testimony from Dr. Roland Kohr and Sarah Carbaugh. Allen accused of murdering Abby Williams and Libby German.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I'm wondering if this must be what the tip narrative is about for February 16th, 2017.

Seems like they may have just simply crossed each other's paths that day and Richard Allen complied by giving different forms of ID to verify himself.

Standard procedure maybe.

What is interesting to me as that he did this after the release of those images from LE not before.

JMO MOO JMT

No clue- same link says that DD was questioned about why he threw out his hand written notes- which makes me wonder how the hand written notes and wrong name persisted until 2022 - I’m obviously missing something- but it’s rather confusing to me how this lead was not followed up on- eye witnesses who placed himself at the scene- someone marked it cleared and it was DD it doesn’t sound like- moo

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

 

[Inthedetails]

Who knows.

I think that there are things missed in most endeavours. We can't switch to relying on algorithms but neither can we assume that just because a person looked at something or actioned it that nothing was missed, because humans are fallible. The stakes are just higher when the subject is homicide.

MOO

One reason I am very resistant to conspiracy theories is because humans screw up too much. We are creatures prone to mistakes.

But we also can correct mistakes.

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

One reason I am very resistant to conspiracy theories is because humans screw up too much. We are creatures prone to mistakes.

But we also can correct mistakes.

jmo

Hanlon's razor - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Vaderman]

At one point while Holeman and Allen were in the car, the lieutenant asked if Allen wanted to fill out a form for items damaged in the search. Holeman said Allen responded, “It doesn’t matter. It’s over.”

Wow!

 

[Yemelyan]

I have more info from the Carroll County Comet that adds to what @MassGuy posted above:

"It doesn't matter. It's over." These are the words Allen said to Jerry Holeman as police searched his residence on October 13th, 2022. Holeman told Allen that if there was any damage to anything inside his home he would be reimbursed. Allen then said those words. When the search was completed Holeman again reiterated that if anything was damaged, Allen could fill out paperwork to get reimbursed and Allen repeated that statement a second time. This was before his arrest later that month.

A tense day in court as the defense questioned Steve Mullin about Allen's car being seen on 300N on Feraury 13th, 2017. Mullin insisted, as did others, that the car was traveling on the road just as Allen had said to him.

The day of the search warrant, items collected including 12 phones, nearly 30 knives, and 4 box cutters.

Inside an ornate box, investigators found a letter to Allen from his mother, some photos, and a hollow point bullet, Smith & Wesson brand, similar to the one found at the crime scene between the bodies of Libby and Abby.

Source: 6.7K views · 162 reactions | Carroll County Comet was live. | By Carroll County Comet | Facebook

 

[photographer4]

What the heck are his questions about SC about? So the defense’s tactic is to just assume everything everybody testifies to is made up? “…she didn’t SEE anyone that day?”?
How preposterous. That’s just insulting.
These questions from the people who brought you the Franks fantasy.

I don't find that question unreasonable since SC didn't speak to LE until 3 weeks after the murders per testimony yesterday. That is really odd to me. I also noted she said she spoke more about blood in her last mtg with LE because they focused more on that. It feels like she was being led to a degree by the police as to what to say in her interview and testimony. Her story also changed from a tan coat to match what BG was wearing.... I think its a great that the D is questioning things about that particular witness. MOO

Delphi murders trial: Witness insists she saw ‘Bridge Guy’ covered in blood and mud

Delphi murders trial: Defense files to introduce ritualistic killing theory to jury

Defense attorneys are trying to introduce the Odinism theory into Richard Allen's double-murder trial.

abc7chicago.com

 

[MassGuy]

Wow!

That’s the exact opposite reaction he should have. Hell, even guilty people are combative and deny it.

It’s a sign he had given up, and knew it was over. Confessions are a lot like that too…

 

[MerBeach]

Interesting jury question!

My interpretation: if RA didn't remember which direction he took, then how can defense accuse Mullin of lying?

If RA said 'I went east', then Mullin would be lying. But since RA said he didn't know, then Mullin was piecing his movements together, using the words RA did state.

To me, that question is even smarter than whatever the Prosecution said in redirect.

JMO

I thought the exact same as you.

I think this jury is fire!

 

[Vaderman]

"It doesn't matter. It's over." These are the words Allen said to Jerry Holeman as police searched his residence on Ocober 13th, 2022.

I wonder if this counts as one of the 60+ confessions or if this is a freebie.

 

[MassGuy]

I have more info from the Carroll County Comet that adds to what @MassGuy posted above:

"It doesn't matter. It's over." These are the words Allen said to Jerry Holeman as police searched his residence on October 13th, 2022. Holeman told Allen that if there was any damage to anything inside his home he would be reimbursed. Allen then said those words. When the search was completed Holeman again reiterated that if anything was damaged, Allen could fill out paperwork to get reimbursed and Allen repeated that statement a second time. This was before his arrest later that month.

A tense day in court as the defense questioned Steve Mullin about Allen's car being seen on 300N on Feraury 13th, 2017. Mullin insisted, as did others, that the car was traveling on the road just as Allen had said to him.

The day of the search warrant, items collected including 12 phones, nearly 30 knives, and 4 box cutters.

Inside an ornate box, investigators found a letter to Allen from his mother, some photos, and a hollow point bullet, Smith & Wesson brand, similar to the one found at the crime scene between the bodies of Libby and Abby.

Source: 6.7K views · 162 reactions | Carroll County Comet was live. | By Carroll County Comet | Facebook

lol. More confusion about the bullet.

A .40 by the full name is .40 S&W. I doubt that’s the brand though.

So we’ll need more info on the round the keepsake box and how it compares to the crime scene one.

 

[otto]

So far, the State has nothing imo. The witnesses don't even seem to have described anyone who resembled RA!! MOOO

It's fantastic watching the story unfold!

Prosecution has been factually establishing that an unknown person nicknamed "bridge guy" confronted the girls, and forced them to go under the bridge with some evidence of using a gun. The girls were found brutally murdered a short distance from where they met bridge guy. Libby's phone was inactive from the moment of meeting bridge guy onward.

Someone resembling bridge guy was seen by witnesses prior to the kidnapping at 2:15 p.m., but not afterward. A man resembling bridge guy was seen walking on the road near the Monon Bridge Trail parking lot at 3:57 p.m. He appeared to be dirty with mud or blood. There's a strong link between bridge guy and the murders.

Next, introduce Richard Allen. He approached police, on advice from his wife, to self-report that he was at the Monon Bridge trail from 1:30-3:30 p.m. That corresponds perfectly with the time of the abduction.

I suppose over the next couple of days we will see the weaving that is required to assert that bridge guy is Richard Allen. Can't wait!

 

[Yemelyan]

lol. More confusion about the bullet.

A .40 by the full name is .40 S&W. I doubt that’s the brand though.

So we’ll need more info on the round the keepsake box and how it compares to the crime scene one.

I was trying to transcribe what the reporter said in the video...she might have misspoken or I might have not typed it correctly. She did stumble a bit as she tried to get the courtroom notes out.

Edit, I re-listened and: the reporter called it "a 40 caliber hollow point bullet that was Smith & Wesson brand, similar to that found at the crime scene"

Not disputing your statement that what she said might not make sense, but just to type it all out exactly as she said it for the record.