Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[photographer4]

2:30-2:32ish is when the elevation change happened according to Cecil. The last recorded movement of the phone was not long after that elevation change. Several threads ago, I posted topo maps of the area and going from the creek to up the bank where they were found is consistent with an elevation increase of ~20ft.

That last few minutes before the phone stopped recording activity is when they were moved across the creek and up the bank to the murder scene.

All my opinion.

Libby German's phone data analyzed at Delphi double-murder trial: 'You need to call me now!'

The analysis comes as defense attorneys are trying to introduce the Odinism theory into Richard Allen's double-murder trial.

abc7chicago.com

Actually Moo, not to nit pick but this link says both. The elevation changed AND the phone stopped moving at 2:32pm. It changed elevation at 2:31 then:

“By 2:32 p.m., Cecil testified the phone stopped and never moved again. He told the court it didn't ping anywhere outside the trails, Deer Creek and the site where the girls' bodies were found the next day.”

If the phone was already across the creek by the time BW got home from wherever he may have been, how could RA have seen him/ the vehicle? I’m confused and very sleepy so maybe I’ve missed something? Pls send coffee! Ty. Not moo - am actually asking because I think I misunderstood something.

 

[Melted]

Well, depends on who you ask. If you ask the defense, he was apparently out repairing ATMs. Unless it turns out he wasn’t, then he’s gotta be BG or something.

In actual reality, the timing does not line up. The girls were already abducted by BG by the time BW arrived. We know this based off of the video timestamp. Ultimately, even if BW is somehow complicit (there is no evidence to say he is, and he was apparently investigated already), RA is still the main candidate for being BG and initially abducting the girls.

JMO

Do we have any sort of corroboration of what time he arrived? I think this might be a reason for why then state doesn’t want the geofence data allowed in

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t really agree here but my opinion is based just on how divided we are here - both before when we knew so little and now that we have begun to hear “confessions”. I think the lawyers probably realized that this case could go either way and it wouldn’t be in RA’s best interest to consider a deal if one had been presented to him given that it would become absolutely certain that he could not walk out a free man. I’m not sure why a lawyer would want their client to take a deal when not taking one means there is still a chance at freedom. Moo.

I was wondering - if RA does get an acquittal, how would his release work? Would he literally be free to just walk straight out from court into society again = not moo, that is a question. Ty.

Because he’s being held in custody, there’s usually a checkout process. He’d be taken back to the jail where he was held and ultimately released from there.

 

[Melted]

Please tell me you are not saying that BW is BG.
OMG
JMO

Well law enforcement seized his sig sauer at one point and tested it so clearly they had the same thought.

 

[sunshineray]

I”m behind so if this is covered already, pls let me know - did he BW? Like described who he saw? Or did he say he heard a car or? I’m about to google, but members here are often on the ball whereas I’m usually not… ty. Not moo - its a question.

White van going down the driveway, that's what interrupted RA...according to RA

 

[Melted]

White van going down the driveway, that's what interrupted RA...according to RA

…according to wala.

This is the problem

 

[Boxer]

I don’t really agree here but my opinion is based just on how divided we are here - both before when we knew so little and now that we have begun to hear “confessions”. I think the lawyers probably realized that this case could go either way and it wouldn’t be in RA’s best interest to consider a deal if one had been presented to him given that it would become absolutely certain that he could not walk out a free man. I’m not sure why a lawyer would want their client to take a deal when not taking one means there is still a chance at freedom. Moo.

I was wondering - if RA does get an acquittal, how would his release work? Would he literally be free to just walk straight out from court into society again = not moo, that is a question. Ty.

Yes. The minute "not guilty" from the jury is read by the judge.

 

[photographer4]

Question for anyone. Earlier I misspoke regarding BW’s arrival time at house now being reported as 2:30 (not 3:30). Also Libby’s phone didn’t move after 2:32 not 2:30 as I said. DTH at 2:13/2:14 but when did they cross the creek if startled by BW.

This was a great question! How could RA have seen or heard a car or a BW if the last movement of the phone was 2:32 - the same time that BW arrived? Weren’t they already across the creek if the phone had stopped moving? Have I misunderstood where BW is - is that not the house at the south end where DTH was said? Genuine questions. Ty.

 

[otto]

Question for anyone. Earlier I misspoke regarding BW’s arrival time at house now being reported as 2:30 (not 3:30). Also Libby’s phone didn’t move after 2:32 not 2:30 as I said. DTH at 2:13/2:14 but when did they cross the creek if startled by BW.

I think RA is lying. The phone was at the location where the girls were murdered at 2:32 on the North side of the creek.

I think RA marched the girls from the South end of the bridge directly across the creek to the location where they were murdered. Then, he forced them to undress. The man who lives near the bridge arrived home around 2:30. RA might have seen the van, but the van did not entirely interrupt him.

RA spent another hour with the girls before they were murdered. He cleaned up by putting their clothes in the creek, throwing some sticks over the bodies, and then hiked back to his car. RA's timeline skips the part where the girls were sexually assaulted.

 

[sunshineray]

I don’t really agree here but my opinion is based just on how divided we are here - both before when we knew so little and now that we have begun to hear “confessions”. I think the lawyers probably realized that this case could go either way and it wouldn’t be in RA’s best interest to consider a deal if one had been presented to him given that it would become absolutely certain that he could not walk out a free man. I’m not sure why a lawyer would want their client to take a deal when not taking one means there is still a chance at freedom. Moo.

I was wondering - if RA does get an acquittal, how would his release work? Would he literally be free to just walk straight out from court into society again = not moo, that is a question. Ty.

I'm talking about the IMO, grossly negligent things and downright ethically disturbing things. It's been talked to death and my opinion is known.

 

[ClearAhead]

Allowong the tips to become disorganized is a management issue, specifically the sheriff who has the authority to assign the teams.

How is that related to RA’s murder trial? At no time did the D attempt to get RA’s tip ruled inadmissible so it’s in. We’re following the progress of the trial, we’re unable to lead it. JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I do not think she has been excused at all. At the very least she was let go from her job. And Rozzi says she is still under investigation. She may yet be charged with something. MOO

"Rozzi tells the jury that Wala used the IDOC database to find information about the case and that the IDOC is investigating her for that. He says this is why she is not at the IDOC right now."
Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

I am JUST jumping off your post...

I am concerned about the therapists outside "sleuthing"...

But... I am not so sure this is worse than the D leaking crime scene photos...

Should the therapist be disqualified...
and then the released evidence be disqualified as well?

Just thoughts rattling around in my little brain...

 

[detectivewannab]

Or one the defense turned down?

BA ego would never take a pea.

 

[flashy09]

This was a great question! How could RA have seen or heard a car or a BW if the last movement of the phone was 2:32 - the same time that BW arrived? Weren’t they already across the creek if the phone had stopped moving? Have I misunderstood where BW is - is that not the house at the south end where DTH was said? Genuine questions. Ty.

BW clocks out at 2:02. It's a 20-25 minute drive. So he arrives at 2:22 - 2:27. RA sends the girls over the creek to a more private location and resumes whatever he was doing for another hour.

 

[photographer4]

I think RA is lying. The phone was at the location where the girls were murdered at 2:32 on the North side of the creek.

I think RA marched the girls from the South end of the bridge directly across the creek to the location where they were murdered. Then, he forced them to undress. The man who lives near the bridge arrived home around 2:30. RA might have seen the van, but the van did not entirely interrupt him.

RA spent another hour with the girls before they were murdered. He cleaned up by putting their clothes in the creek, throwing some sticks over the bodies, and then hiked back to his car. RA's timeline skips the part where the girls were sexually assaulted.

I have thought about this as well - he clearly wasn’t rushing to set the scene really, was he?

 

[photographer4]

White van going down the driveway, that's what interrupted RA...according to RA

Right at the south side where DTH was said, right? Because if the phone / kids were across the creek already by then, how could he have been interupted at the time BW arrived? He was already across the creek with the kids and the phone, no?

 

[Boxer]

I know this may be splitting hairs on definitions to some, but Imma argue that sexual assault did in fact take place. The girls were undressed. He forced them to do things for his sexual gratification that they clearly did not consent to. At their age, they certainly could not have consented to. That is how I define sexual assault anyway.

In that sense yes, fatally sexually assaulted.

 

[justtrish]

Exactly and his wording here shows he never took recovery seriously.
He most likely did it in to appease his family.
But whenever he wanted to act out he could very conveniently lean into his alcoholic dependency.
Jmo

Addicts can be good manipulators. It's sad but often it's the addiction talking so they will say and do anything sometimes. Someone can not get better if they don't truly want to. They can't go because someone loves them and wants them to and then not do the work.

Sounds like he admitted to drinking and driving in his confessions too. Lots of reckless behavior on his part that put a lot of people in danger before he even went to the trail on 2/13

 

[iamshadow21]

Right at the south side where DTH was said, right? Because if the phone / kids were across the creek already by then, how could he have been interupted at the time BW arrived? He was already across the creek with the kids and the phone, no?

I think you're possibly underestimating just how much sound can carry in a rural area, in a river valley. When I lived in a rural area, we heard a car long before we ever saw it, if we saw it at all.

The killer of the girls was on high alert. I'm sure it sounded like that van was about three feet behind him, when it probably wasn't even in view yet.

MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

Dr Wala is no longer employed by the facility in question. From what I understand she works for a private provider.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 11 live blog

Richard Allen, accused of murdering two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana, is on trial and Day 11 of the trial began with testimony from several witnesses including Steve Mullin, John Galipeau, Ethan Drang, and Michael Clemons.

www.wishtv.com

"At 11:53 a.m., the defense began to cross-examine Wala. Defense attorney Brad Rozzi asked Wala about her career history and Wala said that she is no longer works with the IDOC and she is now working at a different facility through a contractor."