Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[Boxer]

While I am clearly interested in true crime, hence a member of Websleuths, I personally do not like horror movies.

It’s a matter of personal taste, right, and so those of you who do enjoy them have that option.

It would only be an issue, IMO, if you were ALSO recorded at the scene of a grisly double murder commanding two teenagers to do your bidding.

Therefore while I don’t think I’d choose this path as a prosecutor, in RA’s case I suppose they’re trying to depict a predilection on RA’s part for violence.

It’s one approach I don’t really applaud for the P, but I get why they are trying it.

JMO

Specific relevant theme horror.

 

[MassGuy]

I was stunned it took that many days to interview BW. One would think he would be among the very first to talk to.

Why? He didn't see anything.

 

[WildHuncher]

While I am clearly interested in true crime, hence a member of Websleuths, I personally do not like horror movies.

It’s a matter of personal taste, right, and so those of you who do enjoy them have that option.

It would only be an issue, IMO, if you were ALSO recorded at the scene of a grisly double murder commanding two teenagers to do your bidding.

Therefore while I don’t think I’d choose this path as a prosecutor, in RA’s case I suppose they’re trying to depict a predilection on RA’s part for violence.

It’s one approach I don’t really applaud for the P, but I get why they are trying it.

JMO

If they need this kind of evidence, their case is weak.

As it stands, the tactic is something between piling on and beating a dead horse.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Do you have a link to the discovery citing the van? I thought it was not in it.

It was mentioned way back in the thread a day or two ago that in the mountains of discovery van sittings were mentioned by witnesses - but don’t have the time to find it right now and don’t know how to search for it, so maybe someone else remembers? - or report so mods can remove the post?

 

[m00c0w]

At 9:56 Rozzi ends his questioning and prosecution attorney Stacey Diener begins her cross-examination of Dwenger.

Dwenger confirms Allen was not severely mentally ill and “began to decompensate” until he was in the Westville Correctional Unit. She says he was first contacted about Allen in April of 2023. She says that’s when his core team was formed.

She says it got to the point where it didn’t matter if he was “faking it,” and they needed to intervene.

Question 4: Could a person slip in truth of a confession, even when faking it? Dwenger says it is hard to tell but yes. She says you can tell if people are faking it based on the organization of thoughts if the conversation is goal-oriented and chronological. She says Allen was not having delirium.

Brutal testimony from the defense's own witness.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

wishtv.com

 

[WildHuncher]

I look at it differently. He didn't just search "gory", "violent", or "scary", he specifically searched Halloween movies by "kidnapping". And he is accused of basically kidnapping two tweens and allegedly killing them. MOO

If I searched movies by "beheading" Halloween movies, and then was arrested for allegedly beheading two victims, it would be more than coincidence and I would expect the jury would be informed of it. MOO

OK. Good point on the kidnapping “coincidence.”

 

[Boxer]

Because can

Why? He didn't see anything.

Canvassing the neighborhood ASAP for witnesses, possible camera footage is police work 101.

 

[gremlin444]

Thank you, knew I was not imagining this!

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-witness-testimony-may-lend-legitimacy-to-richard-allens-prison-confession/

"Brad Weber took the witness stand after Dr. Wala on Wednesday afternoon. Weber owns property next to the Monon High Bridge trails, off North 625 West, that was searched in the initial hours after the girls went missing."

https://www.mywabashvalley.com/news/indiana-news/grandma-ill-be-okay-libby-germans-grandmother-recalls-day-girls-disappeared-on-delphi-trail/?nxsparam=3

"According to Catron, he walked the trails searching for the girls and was “always listening.” He also searched the nearby private property of Brad Weber. The girls might have been walking on this private property that butted up next to the trails. Kelsi German was also asked about the private property during her testimony stating she was unaware it was private property.

Catron said Weber permitted him to search the property for the girls. He searched the property for roughly five to seven minutes. Catron said Weber was neither bloody, sweaty nor disheveled."

 

[Betty P]

does anyone know how BG managed to leave no DNA on the victims? wore gloves that were discarded? their clothing if he touched it burned?

Probably so. Some killers these days are able to get by with these methods if they plan in advance. Gloves, covering or tying up hair and destroying clothing and shoes afterwards. They also leave cell phones at home. Some use burner phones, which is what I suspect RA did for his internet searches.

 

[crhedBngr]

I wanted to respond to this as I've thought about it over the past few days.

When a semi-automatic firearm is actually fired, the process is quite violent, and the ejected casing is normally thrown to the right quite a distance, I've seen 5 feet away up to maybe 15 feet or so away and to the right.....Sometimes this event, in certain guns, will throw that ejected casing more forward of the shooter, sometimes more backwards and to the right, and sometimes, under circumstances, a shooter will take that casing to his/her face, or it'll fly over his/her head, or straight forward, or even down a shirt, which, by the way, burns because it's rather hot right after being fired.

Now, the entire process of ejection changes under a 'manual' racking of a gun, because it's not as violent of a process, it's slower, done by hand, and in this case, it's not a lightweight casing being ejected, rather the entire round, and it's heavier. This causes the round to behave differently when coming out of the gun, and it doesn't "fly" to the right like a casing would during live fire. Some times it just pops out to the right, or it may 'dribble' out and fall straight down, or sideways, or backwards.

So, my conclusion, as a firearms aficionado, AND, I've had this happen to me more than one time, an ejected round, or casing, can easily hit the shooter in the forehead, or land in a shirt pocket, or a jacket pocket. Now, I'm not sayin' this is what happened here, but I think it very possible.

@statt#1 :

I always enjoy reading your thoughtful and informative posts.

JMVHO.

 

[Boxer]

It was mentioned way back in the thread a day or two ago that in the mountains of discovery van sittings were mentioned by witnesses - but don’t have the time to find it right now and don’t know how to search for it, so maybe someone else remembers? - or report so mods can remove the post?

Van sightings.
Do you remember what witnesses that would be?
BW himself of course, but I just dont remember anyone that in the vicinity during the 2:13-2:32 time.
(other than BW)

 

[Rush4087]

No one could make out his face from that video, and none of the sketches would make anyone come forward and say it was him. Customers wouldn't recognize his clothing in that video, as that's not what he wore to work. What is strange is his wife not coming forward, as she would have recognized that clothing and known that her husband was there that day. Presumably anyway.

All just my opinion:

I have always felt that KA knew (or had a strong suspicion) all along. Just my opinion. Wouldn’t she have wondered just what the heck her husband (or somebody who looked exactly like him..) was doing on MHB, overdressed in clothes that looked like his on a warm day at approximately the same time the girls were thought to have been murdered?

Wouldn't she have recognized the jacket? The hat/cap? The jeans? The leather hip pack? Wouldn’t she have known that he was a sex addict (as he admitted) and an alcoholic (as he admitted) who had previously exhibited some mental health issues and odd behavior? She lived with him.

Imo if KA didn’t believe it was him, it was only because she didn’t want to believe it was him. Imo she was in denial - protecting herself and her family - mentally and emotionally.

I think that when RA first saw the BG photos on the 15th, he panicked. I bet his heart started racing. He knew right then that he was going to have to pre-explain his presence on MHB. Everybody would see him (or see somebody who looked exactly like him wearing clothes exactly like his) on that bridge. It’s remarkable to me that nobody immediately called the tip line and suggested that it might be him. Idk, maybe RA was not that well known, not very social.

He also knew there had been witnesses who could possibly put him (or somebody who looked very much like him) there, but he probably hadn’t worried too much about that until the BG photos were published on the 15th. Those were his clothes. He had parked his car there.

Imo the first person RA would’ve felt he needed to pre-explain his presence at MHB to was KA. She would recognize him for sure. How could a wife not? He would then need to arrange it so that she thought it was her idea to do the same with LE. Pre-explain. What manipulation imo.

Jmo, but I think he knew that Libby’s video would eventually convict him. That had to have been a shock. Pre-explaining his presence was his only hope, and even that was slim. Every day that went by had to have been filled with a terrible sense of foreboding, that he was eventually going to be held to account.

All just my opinion

 

[BexLuth0r]

Juror questions of Dr. Dwenger--the director of behavioral health for IDOC.

"A juror asked Dwenger if safekeepers are ever placed in the general population. Dwenger said yes.

A juror asked if Allen may have faked mental health symptoms to stay out of the general population where Allen may have been harmed. Dwenger said that was possible but she had no knowledge.

A juror asked if Dwenger ever heard threats against Allen herself. Dwenger said no.

A juror asked if, while faking mental health concerns, a person could slip truths in a confession. Dwenger said she has seen psychotic people confess sincerely and psychotic people make things up.

A juror asked how a psychiatrist can tell if someone is faking psychosis. Dwenger said in a brief psychotic episode where someone is detached from reality, the clinician has to listen to body language and the chain of the story. Dwenger said if the story is organized the person is probably faking psychosis. If the story is disorganized, not easily followed, and out of chronological order it is more likely the person is psychotic or delusional.

A juror asked what the process is for an inmate with SMI who is a safekeeper. Dwenger said it is the same as for any other inmate.

A juror asked what IDOC's primary responsibility for safekeeper inmates is. Dwenger said safety.

Former fire chief says he saw no clothes in creek the night Abby and Libby went missing | Day 13 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

I like these juror questions. It seems like they are really trying to get to the bottom of the case and work out the evidence.

 

[steeltowngirl]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1852370508517433486

 

[minazoe]

a lot of murders that happen outside in the open are very difficult to solve. they happen fast in an ever-changing environment and the perp usually leaves the scene quite quickly.

this case is shockingly flat in it's motive, this killer wanted to rape the girls but got paranoid and murdered them out of eyesight, end of story, and I think that is it. he probably had several rounds in his pocket.he had his gun, he was covered up. Of course what you don't know is that he was going to kill them all along. He wants to separate the sexual assault away from the murder. Does anyone here believe he would ever allow them to live? His confessions are full of omissions because he want's it that way. mOO

 

[tlcya]

Because can

Canvassing the neighborhood ASAP for witnesses, possible camera footage is police work 101.

seems like they found BW pretty quickly if they interviewed him on the evening of the 13th, before the girls were even located. JMO

 

[Arkay]

If they need this kind of evidence, their case is weak.

As it stands, the tactic is something between piling on and beating a dead horse.

IMO they do have a strong case, based on real evidence, but this last gasp is feeble and diminishes them.

They have RA confessing, in a non-hysterical manner, to his mother and to his wife. They have video, they have all the other powerful evidence. End on a high note, not this fuzzy stuff.

I do hope the jury isn’t puzzled by this inclusion of movie searches, and maybe it will in fact strengthen the case for some.

Time will tell.

JMO.

 

[gremlin444]

Van sightings.
Do you remember what witnesses that would be?
BW himself of course, but I just dont remember anyone that in the vicinity during the 2:13-2:32 time.
(other than BW)

In redirect it was made clear that it wasn't just discussion of vans on that road, it was any mention of any van anywhere in all of the thousands of tips that were provided in discovery.

 

[BUF]

Delphi Murders trial: Day 13 live blog

Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen continues with testimony from witnesses. Allen is charged with murder of two girls in 2017. Follow for updates.

www.wishtv.com

The defense has filed a motion today requesting an FBI Special Agent be allowed to testify remotely. They want Adam Pohl, who is currently working in San Antonio Texas to testify. They say he is a necessary witness for the defense and that his testimony and his testimony will only take 30 minutes.

Pohl is currently the election crime coordinator for the FBI San Antonio, Texas division.

The defense says it is extremely difficult for Pohl to appear in person given his current job responsibilities pertinent to the November 5th election. He was previously assigned to Indiana.

That motion can be viewed below.

Screenshot-2024-11-01-123645-1Download

 

[FrostedGlass]

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-allens-mental-health-at-center-of-day-13/

Ultimately, it appeared Gull decided to allow videos to be played without audio. The debate wasn’t finished there, however. The defense said it couldn’t say for sure when the videos were from because of the way they were labeled in discovery. Gull said they can’t use the videos if they can’t verify the dates.

The defense will do some additional research and try to introduce them later. Allen’s team will call additional witnesses after lunch.

Much of Friday’s proceedings have been taken up by the prosecution’s objections and multiple sidebars involving counsel and the judge.

MOO
I imagine by now, the P is wishing they would just shut up and go away.

[snip from the article]
"Much of Friday’s proceedings have been taken up by the prosecution’s objections and multiple sidebars involving counsel and the judge.}