Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[Inthedetails]

I'd worry about being convicted by emotion instead of lack of evidence...I get wanting justice believe me...but having this get overturned on appeal, and possibly finding out later on down the line that someone else did this and having to sit through more trials is worse

The appeal wouldn't be because the jury convicted on emotion, and absolutely nothing indicates they will base their decision on emotion anyway (and it seems insulting to think they would or could).

The appeal would be based on errors made in the court proceedings. And an appeal court would deal with that.

The jury will be given the charges based on laws violated and a list of criteria that have to been met for those charges to fit. If the jury finds that the requirements were not proven by the prosecution, they will not convict. They don't get to insert their emotions into the decision (though I'm sure the deliberations will be emotional at points), but will have the law in front of them to follow.

jmo

 

[snooptroop88]

-After him former fire chief Darrell Sterrett was up

-He was helping lead searches in the area of the bridge the day the girls went missing
-Sterrett had a lot of trouble remembering almost anything and had to reference his deposition several times
-He testified that nobody out there that night saw any clothes in the creek

-He also said he could hear people searching on the north side of the creek which is where the girls were found
-I believe this is an insinuation by the defense that the girls were taken away and then brought back otherwise they would've been found


This^^^ does not sway me. How many cases have we followed here, where missing persons were not found during the initial search, sometimes not found for months or years? And then randomly a hunter or a hiker will come across the remains.

Also, Initially those searchers were not looking for dead, covered up bodies. They were looking for injured or lost girls, for the most part.

The clothing may not have even started out right there in the creek. It could have been on the bank or in the brush at first---could have been moved by wildlife or the elements.

I think it is more likely that the initial search missed the bodies and the clothing. The scenario of the girls being taken and returned seems highly unlikely if not totally.

So this is confirming what I saw from YouTubers saying they asked him about the clothing on searching that was done at night. I know they had flashlights, but the images of clothing I saw had articles tangled in tree roots that were pretty much possibly submerged. It wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't see those articles with any type of lighting other than actual daylight. And right, the articles could have moved.

 

[Myvice]

So here is a question...is it better to convict with weak evidence or to acquit? Chances are if he is convicted, the verdict will get overturned if he is convicted and he will get a new trial.

This must be your opinion because not everyone feels that way. Maybe if he were to get a new trial it would be televised and more questions would be answered.

 

[katydid23]

Proof of gun in pocket please.

Look at the snapshots of video. People here pointed it out day one. It is quite noticeable.

Did the jury hear this evidence?

They saw the video, and heard one of the girl's say GUN....and the state discusses it in their case, that the girls were forced off bridge at gunpoint.

How many seconds elapse between when he first appears on video and a male voice is heard?

The entire video is only 43 seconds, and he is visible part way through, so probably just a matter of 10 to 20 seconds before his voice is heard. IMO

 

[Salah11]

If he is found guilty the YouTube masses will fade away so if there is any appeal there will be a lot less noise at least.

Moo

 

[Crazyjster]

If you believe you can get a conviction based on what you have, it's better to move forward than do nothing. This case probably isn't going to get stronger with time. If the verdict is overturned on appeal, which there is obviously a chance of, then they'll just do it again. Hopefully next time there will be a better judge who also makes this more open to the public.

The appeal wouldn't be because the jury convicted on emotion, and absolutely nothing indicates they will base their decision on emotion anyway (and it seems insulting to think they would or could).

The appeal would be based on errors made in the court proceedings. And an appeal court would deal with that.

The jury will be given the charges based on laws violated and a list of criteria that have to been met for those charges to fit. If the jury finds that the requirements were not proven by the prosecution, they will not convict. They don't get to insert their emotions into the decision (though I'm sure the deliberations will be emotional at points), but will have the law in front of them to follow.

jmo

They could appeal for various civil rights violations...(I am very aware of what they could appeal on)...I feel bad for the girls families...I like to see these trials done right the first time so there is no grounds for appeal. Unfortunately I would have liked to see a stronger case go to trial because I feel bad for the victims families. Either way they loose.

 

[Spartygirl]

I think he came forward because what if he didn't and someone placed him there? It would look way WORSE for him if LE figured out he was there and asked him why he didn't come forward. RA didn't know LE wouldn't find out he was there so it was much better to offer the info early than to hide it.

RA likely told his wife he was in the park that day, but not on the bridge, and she urged him to tell LE.

And that was that.

jmo

Yep !!

He knew he had to say he was there because he knew he had been seen there.

He, Himself, Placed himself there,
On the bridge, FEB 13th ,
dressed ( by his own description)* as the BG in Libby's video.

RA, himself, has confessed multiple times that he KILLED Libby & Abby

Defense cannot remove him from the Bridge.

While other witnesses put him there.

Boom !!!

 

[Spartygirl]

If he is found guilty the YouTube masses will fade away so if there is any appeal there will be a lot less noise at least.

Moo

Thank Goodness !!!

 

[Vern]

MOO but part of military training is learning how to move a body.

Casualty evacuations. 250lb is the standard (the average weight of a soldier with their battle order/weapon on) - no matter what size 'we' - the carrier (fireman's carry) or the dragger (casevac combat drag) is.

Mind, that's Canadian Army standard, but my fellow soldiers in theatre often had to do the same thing and do also have to meet their annual fitness standards and annual IBTS (Individual Battle Test Standards).

IMO.

 

[Inthedetails]

They could appeal for various civil rights violations...(I am very aware of what they could appeal on)...I feel bad for the girls families...I like to see these trials done right the first time so there is no grounds for appeal. Unfortunately I would have liked to see a stronger case go to trial because I feel bad for the victims families. Either way they loose.

I responded to the topic of decisions based on emotions and the worry of appeal, as asserted a few posts upthread.

jmo

 

[statt#1]

Yep !!

He knew he had to say he was there because he knew he had been seen there.

He, Himself, Placed himself there,
On the bridge, FEB 13th ,
dressed ( by his own description)* as the BG in Libby's video.

RA, himself, has confessed multiple times that he KILLED Libby & Abby

Defense cannot remove him from the Bridge.

While other witnesses put him there.

Boom !!!

So simple. So true. All other argument is moot. After all debate, these raw truths remain. My opinion on the matter

 

[Boxer]

So this is confirming what I saw from YouTubers saying they asked him about the clothing on searching that was done at night. I know they had flashlights, but the images of clothing I saw had articles tangled in tree roots that were pretty much possibly submerged. It wouldn't surprise me that they wouldn't see those articles with any type of lighting other than actual daylight. And right, the articles could have moved.

Also, they were looking for living girls not items fron a crime.

 

[twall]

The appeal wouldn't be because the jury convicted on emotion, and absolutely nothing indicates they will base their decision on emotion anyway (and it seems insulting to think they would or could).

The appeal would be based on errors made in the court proceedings. And an appeal court would deal with that.

The jury will be given the charges based on laws violated and a list of criteria that have to been met for those charges to fit. If the jury finds that the requirements were not proven by the prosecution, they will not convict. They don't get to insert their emotions into the decision (though I'm sure the deliberations will be emotional at points), but will have the law in front of them to follow.

jmo

Disagree and have seen convictions overturned on appeal due to not enough evidence to convict so what did the jury convict on? Emotions!
For example...

Woman Convicted in Baby Daughter's Death Cleared of All Charges

A woman convicted in connection with the murder of her infant daughter will soon be released from prison after the remaining charge against her was dismissed.

www.rockdalenewtoncitizen.com

 

[abams]

If he is found guilty the YouTube masses will fade away so if there is any appeal there will be a lot less noise at least.

Moo

Pretty much every case of this nature is appealed; a conviction will 100% be appealed. To be honest I can't see public interest in this prosecution, and the case as a whole, going away. If anything I believe it will get louder with time. Moo.

 

[steeltowngirl]

So here is a question...is it better to convict with weak evidence or to acquit? Chances are if he is convicted, the verdict will get overturned if he is convicted and he will get a new trial.

What evidence would make it stronger for you?

I was hopeful for DNA. RA managed to leave none behind, or so little that it wasn’t useful. All else is in place. We already knew where, when, and how the murders happened. RA tied in the missing pieces in his own words, explaining why he did it, and even explained the mystery of why they crossed the creek. He was interrupted and forced to move the scene. He covered them with the branches. No ritual. Just a killer trying to hide bodies.

The evidence is there. It’s a strong case. Appeals happen after convictions all the time. That’s to be expected, and should never be the reason to let a guilty man walk free.

jmo

 

[INfisherman]

And one big reason is - why wouldn't RA implicate him now? Why make up Odinist theories if there was an actual, real-life, conspirator?

CSAM offenders usually empathize with one another’s desires & so don’t wish to ruin it for the everyone else involved by snitching on one another. KK probably could have gotten his sentence reduced dramatically had he pointed fingers.

The other reason is self preservation. If they end up being guilty & actually serve time, the inmates aren’t likely to make their stay very enjoyable. Child murderers & molesters aren’t high on inmate’s lists of toleration.

JMO

 

[acutename]

Disagree and have seen convictions overturned on appeal due to not enough evidence to convict so what did the jury convict on? Emotions!
For example...

Woman Convicted in Baby Daughter's Death Cleared of All Charges

A woman convicted in connection with the murder of her infant daughter will soon be released from prison after the remaining charge against her was dismissed.

www.rockdalenewtoncitizen.com

I think that the jury could reasonably decide to believe the defendant's confessions IMO.

 

[Salah11]

Pretty much every case of this nature is appealed; a conviction will 100% be appealed. To be honest I can't see public interest in this prosecution, and the case as a whole, going away. If anything I believe it will get louder with time. Moo.

It will 100% fade away as the conspiracy theorist will find another pet case. He is quite clearly guilty and there won’t be any mileage left in the tank when they throw away the key.

ETA - any appeals will also take years so again they will grow bored.

Moo

 

[twall]

Look at the snapshots of video. People here pointed it out day one. It is quite noticeable.

They saw the video, and heard one of the girl's say GUN....and the state discusses it in their case, that the girls were forced off bridge at gunpoint.

The entire video is only 43 seconds, and he is visible part way through, so probably just a matter of 10 to 20 seconds before his voice is heard. IMO

Got it. I haven't heard so can't form an opinion and don't consider TL an expert in deciphering audio. How is it ok to tell the jury what to hear? Why not let them listen and decide instead of telling them what to hear? Can't form an opinion about the time frame of the voice either since I haven't seen the video. As for the gun I disagree. Can't decipher anything from that blurry image.
Agree to disagree. JMO

 

[Bbgiraffe]

I just think it's interesting how first it was RA isn't bridge guy. But now that RA probably is bridge guy, welllllllll maybe bridge guy isn't the murderer. The simplest explanation is usually right. Not some complicated thing and honestly if they wanted to really frame him up good they could have just followed him around for awhile and got his DNA off something he threw away and then planted his DNA on something from the crime scene. MOO.