Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[BUF]

Wow! Wish I was a fly on that wall today

Hope we get some of those mini updates like we do sometimes!

 

[flashy09]

some info about Dr. Polly Wescott
Polly Westcott | Indiana Health Group
https://www.linkedin.com/in/polly-westcott-psyd-952029b/

the jury asked several questions about Allen’s mental health history.

• If Mr. Allen has the common sense to be afraid to leave his cell, would he have the common sense to fake his symptoms? Westcott said Allen’s statement about being afraid was before his psychotic episode.
• If he was depressed as a child, would that cause him to commit crimes as an adult? Westcott said not always and that it depends on the personality type.
• Would depression as a child cause them to become a sex addict? Westcott said no.
• Did you watch Allen’s police interview in October 2022? Westcott said yes.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

A little more detail and slightly different answers from this source

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-murders-defense-expert-testifies-about-richard-allens-mental-state-and-decline/

Jurors had a number of questions for Westcott, including whether Allen could have faked his mental condition because he feared for his safety. Westcott answered that he made his “statements of fear” before his psychosis.

Another juror asked if someone’s anxiety and depression as a child could cause them to commit a crime as an adult. She said it would depend, adding that someone who was passive and afraid of others wouldn’t normally act out aggressively.

Another asked if anxiety/depression could lead someone to become a sex addict. Westcott answered not necessarily.

Another jury question asked Westcott if she watched Allen’s interviews with police. She said she hadn’t.

Other questions involved the interpretation of test results, the differences between delusions and delirium and clarification on Allen’s mental health diagnosis.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Hope we get some of those mini updates like we do sometimes!

Me too! I miss being able to see and read peoples' body language and facial expressions that we usually can during trials, so this has been rough! lol imo

 

[arielilane]

@MaxLewisTV

-She also said Allen has sensory deprivation because the lights are on all the time and he was not sleeping
-During cross examination, deputy prosecutor Stacy Diener insinuated the Dr. Wescott received information about the defense attorneys opinion
-She said she did not


-Diener also pointed out that the prison psychologist and psychiatrist had more real time interaction with Allen so they’d be better suited to make a call on his health

-Westcott said her job was to look at mental health and documenting symptoms when asked why she chose to summarize some confessions and not others
-The jury asked several questions about Allen faking and Westcott’s testing methods


-After that, the defense attorneys assistant Max Baker was back on the stand
-Videos from insideAllen‘s prison cell were shown
-Again, the screen was turned so nobody from the public could see the videos




-There was some later testimony that indicated they showed Alan eating his own poop and banging his head into the wall
-Some jurors had some noticeable reactions like looking away from the video, but most sat stonefaced and watched
-There was a test cross examination by McLeland


-He said the defense was only trying to get sympathy from the jury
-He then asked Baker if they were trying to make Allen out to be the victim
-At point Rozzi objected and both attorneys begin speaking over one another
-Judge Gull had to tell them to stop


-McLeland asked why they didn’t show more videos where Alan was just sitting around and being normal
-Baker responded: “as far as I can tell you didn’t want them to see them either”
-Baker is referencing the fact that the prosecution objected to all the videos being shown


-Court resumes at 1:30
-Unclear who our witnesses are going to be for the rest of the day
-Could possibly be RichardAllen‘s wife since she has not been in the courtroom all day
-Updates later


@MaxLewisTV

 

[photographer4]

DELPHI MURDERS TRIAL: ‘No indication of faking or any type of exaggeration,’ neuropsychologist testifies about Richard Allen’s mental health

The 15th day of trial began in Carroll County around 9 a.m. on Nov. 4.

www.21alivenews.com

"Wescott reviewed video and phone calls from Allen’s time at Westville Correctional Facility. She also sat down with him to perform evaluations.

Wescott determined Allen was suffering from severe mental health issues. She says there was “No indication of faking or any type of exaggeration” for his actions in prison. She says she found consistency among all tests that Allen was suffering from psychosis."

Sounds like the D did get him assessed independently afterall, and that this person met with RA and his wife... Here is a second quote and link to that effect:

"Westcott said she watched all of the videos of Allen in prison, listened to his calls from prison, met separately with him and his wife, and reviewed notes from suicide logs. She also said that tests she conducted on Allen showed he was not faking symptoms, contradicting testimony by Dr. Monica Wala, Allen's therapist at Westville."

Defense in Delphi trial seeks to cast doubt on Richard Allen's confessions, discredit key witness

Dr. Polly Westcott testified for the defense that prolonged isolation and lack of meaningful contact with his wife aggravated Allen's mental illness

www.pal-item.com

 

[Momofthreeboys]

Absolutely. That’s a major point, as if the molestation can be refuted then it could lead to doubts about the rest of the confessions.

As we’ve seen in other recent cases, family members of the accused will typically side with them, even if they’ve previously given statements that are somewhat harmful.

Yes, and the only one who claims to have said he molested anyone is RA so no one should be surprised if the family doesn't admit anything. I think it's brave of them to take the stand frankly and be cross examined. In one of psychotic confessions didn't he also claim to have shot the girls or am I getting the confessions muddled? Frankly I don't know how people could objectively decide what he claimed that was truthful and what was not during his confessions.

 

[arielilane]

bbm. repost.
https://x.com/MaxLewisTV
@MaxLewisTV

-Court resumes at 1:30
-Unclear who our witnesses are going to be for the rest of the day
-Could possibly be RichardAllen‘s wife since she has not been in the courtroom all day
-Updates later


1:20 PM · Nov 4, 2024

 

[tlcya]

McLeland then asked why Baker chose the camcorder videos shown on Saturday. Few of the camcorder videos included Allen being tased, showering, eating feces, receiving an x-ray, and interacting with his nurse. Baker said he picked the videos he did because they showed “Rick’s life in prison.”

McLeland commented that Baker showed “what he viewed as his worst condition in Westville” and that Baker “showed the jury (the video) to try to show that Richard Allen is the victim.”

A back-and-forth ensued between McLeland, Rozzi, and Baker. McLeland ended his questioning, and Rozzi jumped in to ask: “You picked what you picked to show them the truth?”

Baker said, “Yes.”

Russell said many objections were raised. Baker became snippy at one point.

Soon after, the jury asked if the attorneys asked Baker to choose the worst videos.

“I had my own discretion,” Baker said.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

 

[Momofthreeboys]

"-McLeland asked why they didn’t show more videos where Alan was just sitting around and being normal
-Baker responded: “as far as I can tell you didn’t want them to see them either”
-Baker is referencing the fact that the prosecution objected to all the videos being shown"

Hire that young man.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Nope. Probably because that would make too much sense.

It looks like ISP used their own guy, and although the Feds were involved in that aspect to an extent, we don’t know to what extent.

This is usually one of the most compelling parts of trial, and they don’t seem to have gone in depth with it at all.

That’s one of the things that really bugs me - why not dig deeper?
moo

 

[MassGuy]

DELPHI MURDERS TRIAL: ‘No indication of faking or any type of exaggeration,’ neuropsychologist testifies about Richard Allen’s mental health

The 15th day of trial began in Carroll County around 9 a.m. on Nov. 4.

www.21alivenews.com

"Wescott reviewed video and phone calls from Allen’s time at Westville Correctional Facility. She also sat down with him to perform evaluations.

Wescott determined Allen was suffering from severe mental health issues. She says there was “No indication of faking or any type of exaggeration” for his actions in prison. She says she found consistency among all tests that Allen was suffering from psychosis."

Sounds like the D did get him assessed independently afterall, and that this person met with RA and his wife... Here is a second quote and link to that effect:

"Westcott said she watched all of the videos of Allen in prison, listened to his calls from prison, met separately with him and his wife, and reviewed notes from suicide logs. She also said that tests she conducted on Allen showed he was not faking symptoms, contradicting testimony by Dr. Monica Wala, Allen's therapist at Westville."

Defense in Delphi trial seeks to cast doubt on Richard Allen's confessions, discredit key witness

Dr. Polly Westcott testified for the defense that prolonged isolation and lack of meaningful contact with his wife aggravated Allen's mental illness

www.pal-item.com

This was obviously very late in the proceedings, and appears to have been done to prepare for a defense, as opposed to getting him moved from those conditions.

I say “obviously,” because of all the materials she had access too, which would have been a long time after he arrived.

 

[MassGuy]

That’s one of the things that really bugs me - why not dig deeper?
moo

I don’t think that it’s that they didn’t dig deeper, it’s that they didn’t bother to present it. Maybe that would open the door to the defense using that geofence data to accuse innocent people that had been cleared after getting caught up in it.

 

[NoeticSoul]

McLeland then asked why Baker chose the camcorder videos shown on Saturday. Few of the camcorder videos included Allen being tased, showering, eating feces, receiving an x-ray, and interacting with his nurse. Baker said he picked the videos he did because they showed “Rick’s life in prison.”

McLeland commented that Baker showed “what he viewed as his worst condition in Westville” and that Baker “showed the jury (the video) to try to show that Richard Allen is the victim.”

A back-and-forth ensued between McLeland, Rozzi, and Baker. McLeland ended his questioning, and Rozzi jumped in to ask: “You picked what you picked to show them the truth?”

Baker said, “Yes.”

Russell said many objections were raised. Baker became snippy at one point.

Soon after, the jury asked if the attorneys asked Baker to choose the worst videos.

“I had my own discretion,” Baker said.
Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

bbm

This jury sure asks some great and insightful questions imo. Very engaged. eta And definitely not stupid!

 

[Deleted member 296739]

I don’t think that it’s that they didn’t dig deeper, it’s that they didn’t bother to present it. Maybe that would open the door to the defense using that geofence data to accuse innocent people that had been cleared after getting caught up in it.

That makes sense- thanks

 

[BUF]

Baker became snippy at one point.

This is the intern that works for the defense.

 

[Diddian]

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Part 2 of 3
Wescott also met with Kathy Allen several weeks later.
Wescott said she also asked for medical logs, more records, and then wrote a lengthy report. Wescott's report was entered as evidence. It included the following:

• Allen has "extensive mental health history"
• Intense anxiety and fears about school and around other people. The fears are focused on what others are thinking about him.
• As an adult, Allen started medicine for anxiety and depression.
• Allen felt like he was letting down his family and that no one likes him. Allen felt that way from his 20s through his time in prison.
• Allen's anxiety caused his depression.
• Under external stress, Allen "crumbles & falls apart - literally crawling up in a ball."
  • Wescott sited Allen's work history. Allen got promoted by the added stress sent him into more anxiety and depression.
• Always a time when Allen was suffering from some level of anxiety or depression
• Wescott also found Allen has Dependent Personality Disorder
  • Allen really needs other people to feel like a whole person. He relied heavily on his wife and mother.
  • Someone with this disorder can't function, make decisions, or exist on their own
  • Constant feeling of abandonment and rejection, need loved ones around
  • "He would fall apart when they were not physically there."

Reading this about RA's history, one wonders how he could possibly have served in the National Guard Reserve. And am I remembering right - 20 years doing so?

 

[Notthisshipsister]

BG walked with a noticable limp, by all accounts. Has it ever been established that RA walked with the same limp? Even if the BG/RA's limp was temporary, caused by a fall, bad shoes, whatever-- I would think that others such as his wife or co-workers would have noticed and made a connection.

 

[detectivewannab]

So a convicted child molester. Awesome. Somehow I doubt the jury will find him very credible. At least, I don't and I hope the jury doesn't either. I assume the state can attempt to impeach his testimony by telling the jury or having the inmate on cross tell the jury what he was convicted of that caused his current incarceration.

That crime scene was a bloody mess. Without an overt sex act or Allen cutting himself (a box cutter is less likely to do that than a knife), then there wasn’t much hope or DNA (especially when you factor in the damage done by the elements).

You’ve got clothes everywhere, Libby was apparently able to briefly attempt to escape, and this guy would have had to leave the area covered in blood and mud (even if he did take his jacket off).

I think that had he been confronted, he would have eaten his gun (we do know he was known to be suicidal).

Yet LE did not test the hair?

 

[MassGuy]

Yet LE did not test the hair?

That testing is not quite there yet. It is possible to obtain workable DNA, but it’s not guaranteed to produce results. They only get one shot because it uses up the entire sample.

I’d be interested to know if the defense could force them to test that hair, regardless. I could see why they wouldn’t want to do that though.

 

[Diddian]

Day drinking, no less.

JMO

And in his 2022 interview with LE, he said he arrived on the trails around noon and left around 1:30, so not just day drinking... but morning drinking. 3 beers while most of us are having our morning coffee and/or orange juice (ETA: assuming you give any credence to RA's claim that he arrived at the trails around noon. I don't given that his earlier statement immediately after the girls disappeared was that he was there 1:30 to 3:30.)