Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[Gigiky]

That testing is not quite there yet. It is possible to obtain workable DNA, but it’s not guaranteed to produce results. They only get one shot because it uses up the entire sample.

I’d be interested to know if the defense could force them to test that hair, regardless. I could see why they wouldn’t want to do that though.

I posted a while back that FBI offered to test those hairs and was refused their offer. The reason given was because they (ISP) didn't want to risk depleting DNA in case advancements in testing later on. But FBI said they could do microscopic testing insuring there would be plenty of the samples left.
But ISP still refused their offer for testing.

 

[Willow Knight]

And while we are on it , what did they find on the geofence from Allen's phone?

IMO

I don't believe they found anything from from his phone because I believe he lied when he said he was on his phone watching stock. I believe he did not take his phone with him that day, OR he got rid of it because it would be evidence as to what time he was there.

I hope showing the video's of Richard Allen 'getting a bath, etc" opens the doors for the prosecution to show another side of Richard Allen to the jury. What events triggered his restraints.

IMO, the man thought for years he would get away with killing Libby and Abby. He got comfortable. Then it all came to realization. His actions during his confinement IMO were due to him realizing he was caught, only when he was given hope that he could beat this murder charge did he recant.

Prison for him IMO and prison for anyone that aided him after the fact.

 

[katydid23]

I’m glad the doctor explained that Wala’s “story-like” and coherent recounting of RA’s May 2023 confession was inconsistent with his behavior and other phone calls he made that day. I suspected as much.

In my experience, with a 'psychotic' close family member, the patient does not stay 'delirious' 24/7. There are ebbs and flows. My brother could carry on coherent, cohesive discussions at times. Could sit and seem normal. Track conversations, answer questions, be logical and engaging. Tell a linear story in a truthful way.

Then when walking back to his room in the facility, he might start barking like a dog and laughing nonsensically and answering voices in his head.

The medications can help suppress much of it. And during those windows of time the patient can be coherent and reliable, IME.

 

[lonetraveler]

Sort of off-topic but since multiple people have remarked on the courtroom art & RA propping his glasses on his head.... I would assume they are reading glasses, so unless he's reading something, he probably doesn't need to wear glasses. I see many people prop their glasses up like this -- keeps them convenient when you need to read something.

MOO.

I know that I hunted for my reading glasses this morning for at least half an hour until I realized the glasses were on top of my head.

 

[photographer4]

Yes for sure ... it's just RA has such a distinct build...
JMO

But when other people were presented as POIs in this case by LE... I can distinctly remember people were adamant that that particular POI had to be the guy in LG's video... (moo). For me, just not enough detail - its all grainy and pixelated -- so no facial details can be made out really imo so I can't say it looks like RA over anyone else really. MOOOO.

 

[tlcya]

Yes-she said she watched his in-cell video for that day and also listened to his recorded phone calls from that day. I will find the link - it was in one of todays early updates.

here was all I could find on that:

Westcott also commented on Dr. Monica Wala’s reports of Allen. Wala, who was Allen’s psychologist at Westville, reported Allen’s murder confessions in a “story-like” manner, according to Westcott, but the videos of Allen at the same time “weren’t logical.”
Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

I couldn't find specifics about what "at the same time" means. same day? same hour? both before and after.

I found this portion of her testimony interesting:

Westcott also diagnosed him with Dependent Personality Disorder and was particularly dependent on Kathy.

The clinical psychologist said Allen "fell apart" when he was cut off from Kathy.
Delphi murders trial: Psychologist said suspect had distorted reality during prison confessions

It sounds to me like a big portion of RA's alleged psychosis was created when KA and his mother stopped taking his phone calls. RA appears, by all accounts, to have decompensated very rapidly at that point.

 

[detectivewannab]

Defense in Delphi trial seeks to cast doubt on Richard Allen's confessions, discredit key witness

Dr. Polly Westcott testified for the defense that prolonged isolation and lack of meaningful contact with his wife aggravated Allen's mental illness

www.courierpress.com

One of the jurors asked Baker if defense attorneys directed him to compile the worst videos. Baker said he had discretion on which videos to pick.

He was told what to say.

 

[tlcya]

In my experience, with a 'psychotic' close family member, the patient does not stay 'delirious' 24/7. There are ebbs and flows. My brother could carry on coherent, cohesive discussions at times. Could sit and seem normal. Track conversations, answer questions, be logical and engaging. Tell a linear story in a truthful way.

Then when walking back to his room in the facility, he might start barking like a dog and laughing nonsensically and answering voices in his head.

The medications can help suppress much of it. And during those windows of time the patient can be coherent and reliable, IME.

Exactly my own personal experience with household member and their psychosis. I am thankful every day for the meds.

 

[Gigiky]

I just finished watching the documentary, DOWN THE HILL:THE DELPHI MURDERS.
Looking at that terrain is a wonder to me how there was no DNA left at that scene.
And the fact that there isn't any makes me think this isn't a one off thing.

 

[otto]

I feel like I'm reading about two different Richard Allens.

The first is a high school football player who went on to complete studies in accounting. He joined the national guard, and in 2006 purchased a home with cash at the age of 33. He excelled in his career, moving to increasingly senior positions of management. At the age of 44 he was so confident that he could get away with murder that he abducted two teenage girls one afternoon and sliced their throats in a nearby ravine. He went on living his life, happily, confidently, and without issue. He continued to excel in his career.

The other Richard Allen, the one described in court by the defence witness, sounds like he can barely tie his shoelaces without his wife's instructions. He's too disorganized and dependent on others to be a candidate for an accounting degree or certificate, and stress (work or family related) causes psychosis.

 

[minor4th]

Did she see video from the dates of his accurate confession. My understanding is she did not.
Can you please provide link to source that states she viewed video from the dates he confessed to his wife, mother and Dr Wala?
Thanks

Ok here’s what I found:

Wescott said she received Dr. Monica Wala's notes. Wescott said the confession description reads like a story. Wala's notes about the confession seemed like there was a logical story with a beginning, middle and end. Wescott said she saw a discrepancy between Wala's notes and what Wescott saw in the suicide watch notes and video tape from the same day.

I thought I saw a report that Westcott listened to phone calls from that day, but maybe it was the suicide watch notes I was thinking of. In any event, she did watch the videos from those days. Take a look at the source below. It’s the most comprehensive reporting I’ve seen from the live blogs.

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

Here’s what another source said about it:

Westcott also commented on Dr. Monica Wala’s reports of Allen. Wala, who was Allen’s psychologist at Westville, reported Allen’s murder confessions in a “story-like” manner, according to Westcott, but the videos of Allen at the same time “weren’t logical.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

Follow Day 15 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused of murdering two girls in Delphi. Stay updated with our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[ClearAhead]

Allen has “significant slowdown” in cognitive ability with low problem-solving abilities and a tendency to fixate on things; she said he focused on money and finances before prison; after his arrest, he became fixated on confessing
https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...bout-richard-allens-mental-state-and-decline/

Well a a cognitive "slowdown" and a tendency to fixate does not explain the confessions for me, but A for effort doc.

Or was there another reason, such as RA needing to control the finances to hide how he was spending money on things he didn’t want her to know about such as his drinking or sexual additions? She seems the type of spouse who’d be more than happy to not know. JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

But when other people were presented as POIs in this case by LE... I can distinctly remember people were adamant that that particular POI had to be the guy in LG's video... (moo). For me, just not enough detail - its all grainy and pixelated -- so no facial details can be made out really imo so I can't say it looks like RA over anyone else really. MOOOO.

Agreed.

Also, the main issue with that video and BG is that plenty of men dressed like that in the area around that time, and could have worn hats or had a beard, only it was hard to tell as the resolution was too low.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[mrjitty]

Prosecutors Legal Briefs had another excellent summary of the 3rd week

With so much D centric and frankly conspiratorial content around, it's nice to have some people who focus on procedure and trial tactics - mostly from a prosecutorial perspective, but they are also good at explaining what the defence are doing.

tldr;

In their opinion the confessions are brutal, and explain much of the defence strategy. The van is potentially a disaster and they don't find it credible that Wala somehow planted the idea. Brett actually jokes that if the prosecution really want to frame someone, please just do it with DNA and not with switched bullets etc. His point is, this increasingly vast conspiracy to set up innocent Rick doesn't make any sense if you think about it for 2 minutes.

Alice also notes a potential extra slip in RA's confessions - that he refers to branches, which is also what is in the evidence, whereas the defence has promoted 'sticks' - i can't recall if that was covered here.

They spend some time speculating that this might just be a very mundane case that has been seen many times before. A troubled man with a history of abuse in his own life, escalated to rape, and escalated to murder. The murders may not have been planned at all. Things got out of hand. According to them, this is an unfortunately common pathway, and much more likely that a satanic panic.

Brett also had this to say to the community

“This goes for podcasters, YouTubers, journalists, random people posting online: if you are out there suggesting that K, or one of her family members, is involved in this case, you are not a warrior for truth, you are not a sleuth, you’re not some sort of open-minded person…you’re an ***** and you should be ashamed of yourself.”

Perhaps he should have widened his aim to include certain defence attorneys ...

 

[AugustWest]

Did she see video from the dates of his accurate confession. My understanding is she did not.
Can you please provide link to source that states she viewed video from the dates he confessed to his wife, mother and Dr Wala?
Thanks

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

Follow Day 15 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused of murdering two girls in Delphi. Stay updated with our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

Westcott also commented on Dr. Monica Wala’s reports of Allen. Wala, who was Allen’s psychologist at Westville, reported Allen’s murder confessions in a “story-like” manner, according to Westcott, but the videos of Allen at the same time “weren’t logical.”

 

[misantha]

I sort of agree with you. That last confession gives me the most pause. But the psychiatrist said today that she doubted that RA said those things in a logical, story-like narrative based on his behavior she saw that day and other phone calls he had on that day.

So I don’t know what to believe.

"Westcott said most of what a person says or perceives while in a psychotic state is not consistent with the world others perceive around them."

"Westcott said that in psychosis or delirium, a person doesn't know what's real and what isn't because of changes in the brain."

I'm having a hard time with her testimony because I believe she also testified that you don't have "brief psychosis," you are just in psychosis.

It doesn't make sense to me that Dr. Wala presented the most damning confession as a logical narrative that seemed to make sense. In addition, one of the things that struck me from reporting on the day that the phone calls to his wife and mother were played, was the impression that his voice was calm, and it was like he was just having a regular conversation with family. Of course, I haven't heard them, but that doesn't seem to fit with the testimony from today.

 

[photographer4]

Allen told Wala that he was a recovering alcoholic but that he drank three beers on Feb. 13, 2017, before heading to the trails.
https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delp...gitimacy-to-richard-allens-prison-confession/

He also said he was an alcoholic and had been both a victim and perpetrator of child molestation.
https://www.wane.com/news/i-just-wa...unt-of-delphi-murders-to-prison-psychologist/

Dr. Wala testified that Allen was an alcohol-dependent sex addict who admitted the murders were “sexual in nature,” according to the Indiana paper, though a medical examiner found no evidence of sexual abuse during the autopsies.
Jailhouse Confessions From Delphi Murders Suspect Played at Trial: “I'm Already in Hell” | Oxygen Official Site

You can opt not to believe RA's confessions, but he DID say he was an alcoholic. Of course some will say that was just the "psychosis" talking.

Wala has been completely discredited as a quack in my view! I would hope that lawyers are thoroughly reviewing any other cases she may have worked on during her time at Westville... MOooo. I can't believe a word she said....

 

[girlhasnoname]

That crime scene was a bloody mess. Without an overt sex act or Allen cutting himself (a box cutter is less likely to do that than a knife), then there wasn’t much hope or DNA (especially when you factor in the damage done by the elements).

You’ve got clothes everywhere, Libby was apparently able to briefly attempt to escape, and this guy would have had to leave the area covered in blood and mud (even if he did take his jacket off).

I think that had he been confronted, he would have eaten his gun (we do know he was known to be suicidal).

Too much of a coward to harm himself IMO. I don't think he has ever been hospitalized for an actual suicide attempt, but I could be wrong. His hospital stays seem to come on the heels of a big time alcohol jag induced meltdown combined with his depression and anxiety. 2015 & 2019

RA comes off to me as a controlling, "little man" type who likes to dominate those in his family/close surroundings by intimidation, playing the poor me routine, and suicidal threats when he really shows his behind because he NEEDS their acceptance.

RA has more of an alcohol problem than unmanageable mental health issues IMO. Combined, it's explosive like RA has been known and has shown to be.

I wish we knew what the true family dynamics were behind closed doors. Shocking I would guess.

All JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Updates coming:

At 1:34 p.m. Judge Gull has entered court room and court is back in session without the jury. She says that the report from Wescott fits into “totem pole hearsay” and explains that unless the state can cite specific hearsay, she will admit it.

The jury is back in the court room at 1:37 p.m. Defense attorney Jennifer Auger calls Jamie Jones, Richard Allen’s half-sister.

Jones tells the jury that Allen “did not ever molest her or touch her inappropriately.”

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

Follow Day 15 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused of murdering two girls in Delphi. Stay updated with our live blog for the latest developments.

www.wishtv.com

 

[tlcya]

Or was there another reason, such as RA needing to control the finances to hide how he was spending money on things he didn’t want her to know about such as his drinking or sexual additions? She seems the type of spouse who’d be more than happy to not know. JMO

hmmm, I hadn't considered that. My own thinking, given we have heard that the defense doc thinks he has DPD, was that KA probably wore the financial pants in the family, handled decision making, bill paying, ie. she did the heavy lifting and he was just her clingy husband, who had a hard time being a big boy. etc.

Who knows your guess is just as good as mine.