Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #211

[minor4th]

What the heck is “totem pole hearsay” supposed to mean?
And who started the rumor that RA molested his sister?
Sounds like an episode from a Jerry Springer show! IMO

I have never heard that term before. Wala said RA confessed to molesting his sister and daughter.

 

[photographer4]

RA told Dr. Wala that he molested his sister. The rumor originated with him.

Or... did it begin with Wala claiming he said this? Is there any recording of him saying this to her? If not, I don't believe her testimony. She did a terrible job, and was completely unethical and unprofessional -- moo

 

[Momofthreeboys]

If we get to the end of the trial with no CAST evidence in relation to the defendant that will be a major surprise to me. Can it be that the data no longer exists and whatever dumps they got didn't have RA in them?

If I recall early on LE said there was one tower that services the entire area in and around Delphi. If I recall they acquired cell phone numbers that connected to that tower. It sounded to me like they could no no triangulation of some of the things you hear about in more urban areas but I've been perplexed why no digital data at all came in from prosecution. Someone who remembers hopefully will chime in.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

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Well “ at the same time “ isn’t exactly the same as viewing the video of the confession.
I wish this had been more specific. I realize I am being nit picky here but it’s important.
If he was lucid when confessing then acting bonkers moments later when they had rejected his admission- are they “the same time”?

Time matters. At 2:13pm Libby and Abby were alive at the same time BG/RA was approaching them on the MHB. Moments later they were in a completely different physical and mental state.

Jmo

 

[Salah11]

Or... did it begin with Wala claiming he said this? Is there any recording of him saying this to her? If not, I don't believe her testimony. She did a terrible job, and was completely unethical and unprofessional -- moo

Why would she risk her reputation to make this up?

 

[photographer4]

I have never heard that term before. Wala said RA confessed to molesting his sister and daughter.

Found it: "At 1:34 p.m. Judge Gull has entered court room and court is back in session without the jury. She says that the report from Wescott fits into “totem pole hearsay” and explains that unless the state can cite specific hearsay, she will admit it."

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[AugustWest]

What the heck is “totem pole hearsay” supposed to mean?
And who started the rumor that RA molested his sister?
Sounds like an episode from a Jerry Springer show! IMO

Totem pole hearsay is better known as hearsay within hearsay.

Rule 805. Hearsay Within Hearsay

www.law.cornell.edu

‘Totem pole hearsay’

The Tlingit Chief Johnson totem pole in Ketchikan, Alaska. (Mira/Alamy) An unusual legal term I just ran across, though more common in Massachusetts court decisions — “totem pole hearsay.” It means…

nancyedimick.wordpress.com

 

[tlcya]

At 1:43 The defense called Brittany Zapanta, Richard Allen’s daughter. Allen is reportedly nodding his head as she takes the stand. Zapanta tells the jury she moved out in 2015 for a job. She says she works in urgent care. She attended Ball State and then went to Indianapolis, she says.

Auger asks, “did your father molest you?” Zapanta says “no.” Auger asks “would you lie for him?” Zapanta says “no.” The defense finishes direct examination of her.

At 1:44 p.m. Luttrell begins his cross-examination. He asks Zapanta, “did you and your father go on the trail a lot?” and “Did you and your father go on the Monon High Bridge?” Auger objects to both questions.

Luttrell asks Zapanta if Allen changed his appearance after she left for Ball State. She says no.

He asks her another question about Allen’s height and weight. Auger objects. He shows Zapanta photos of Allen. Auger asks to approach the bench.

News 8’s Kyla Russell notes that Allen is smiling at Zapanta, but she does not make eye contact with him.

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I get the objection to questions about the trails and the bridge. I am confused by the ones where defense is objecting to asking her about her father's general appearance change over the years and basic things like his height and weight? I recall defense also fought very hard to keep images of the different looks/weights of Rick Allen out of this trial.

I wonder why they are so worried about the state calling to attention the fact that RA's appearance HAS drastically changed. Pre murder RA, post murder and pre custody RA, and finally in custody RA.

ETA the large font sentence I find interesting.

 

[minor4th]

Or... did it begin with Wala claiming he said this? Is there any recording of him saying this to her? If not, I don't believe her testimony. She did a terrible job, and was completely unethical and unprofessional -- moo

Yes, it comes from Wala.

 

[MassGuy]

At 1:56 p.m. the jury asks questions to Zapanta. She tells the jury she visited the bridge in her teens and crossed the high bridge with her dad and only crossed it one or two times total. Allen is seen smiling as Zapanta leaves.

At 1:56 p.m. the defense called Shelby Hicks. Hicks says she is a realtor and was 23 years old in 2017. She tells the jury on Feb. 13, 2017, she took her car in for repair and went for a hike with her boyfriend. She says they got to the trails around 2:30 p.m. and parked in connector lot. Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin is trying to get her to say Mears Entrance.

Baldwin asks her if there was anyone parked there other than her, she says there were other cars. Hicks says they walked toward the highway for five minutes and then went toward the high bridge. She tells the jury it takes 10-15 minutes to get to the bridge, she said they saw an “older gentleman,” two girls from school and “a few other kids.”

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[Tortoise]

"When there is hearsay within hearsay it is commonly referred to as totem pole hearsay."

COMMONWEALTH vs. PETER BOYER.

COMMONWEALTH vs. PETER BOYER. - 58 Mass. App. Ct. 662

law.justia.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

Right but as Prosecutors Podcast has noted for example, if you bring wild motions full of misrepresentations and lack evidence, then you can expect to get your motions dismissed. For all the wailing about the Franks, we now know many of the key contentions were false.

Similarly this can relate to trial strategy. For instance, saying a lot of things you know will get objected to, even though you know they will be sustained, because you want the jury to hear it.

There is no fundamental guideline these deicisons should be 50/50 - it depends on evidence, strength of your case, and strategy.

MOO

When this ends, we can always go through and compare notes. Then, in the very end, maybe some of the podcasters can pitch in to buy the trial transcripts and publish them. There lies the truth.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If I recall early on LE said there was one tower that services the entire area in and around Delphi. If I recall they acquired cell phone numbers that connected to that tower. It sounded to me like they could no no triangulation of some of the things you hear about in more urban areas but I've been perplexed why no digital data at all came in from prosecution. Someone who remembers hopefully will chime in.

They admitted digital from Libby’s phone.

 

[BexLuth0r]

I get the objection to questions about the trails and the bridge. I am confused by the ones where defense is objecting to asking her about her father's general appearance change over the years and basic things like his height and weight? I recall defense also fought very hard to keep images of the different looks/weights of Rick Allen out of this trial.

I wonder why they are so worried about the state calling to attention the fact that RA's appearance HAS drastically changed. Pre murder RA, post murder and pre custody RA, and finally in custody RA.

ETA the large font sentence I find interesting.

Even though they objected, the jury will have heard her answers correct?

I also saw that apparently she didn't look at him in the court room. I'm sure that could be interpreted so many different ways. I imagine you could cut the tension with a knife! I feel for the jury, whatever decision they make is probably not going to feel like a victory and will be scrutinised from all angles!

 

[tlcya]

At 1:56 p.m. the jury asks questions to Zapanta. She tells the jury she visited the bridge in her teens and crossed the high bridge with her dad and only crossed it one or two times total. Allen is seen smiling as Zapanta leaves.

At 1:56 p.m. the defense called Shelby Hicks. Hicks says she is a realtor and was 23 years old in 2017. She tells the jury on Feb. 13, 2017, she took her car in for repair and went for a hike with her boyfriend. She says they got to the trails around 2:30 p.m. and parked in connector lot. Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin is trying to get her to say Mears Entrance.

Delphi Murders trial: Day 15 live blog

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I Love how this jury, despite objections interfering with either side being able to elicit an answer, takes it upon itself to then ask the question of the witness.

 

[MassGuy]

I Love how this jury, despite objections interfering with either side being able to elicit an answer, takes it upon itself to then ask the question of the witness.

Hahaha yes. It’s a handy loophole.

 

[minor4th]

Why would she risk her reputation to make this up?

Why would she risk her reputation and career by accessing DOC files that she was not authorized to access?

Also, why would she contradict herself in her own testimony, at times claiming RA was faking his mental illness and at other TIMES agreeing that he suffered from a psychotic disorder?

I think she came across as though she had an agenda. She is interested in helping the State convict Richard Allen. JMO

 

[tlcya]

Even though they objected, the jury will have heard her answers correct?

I also saw that apparently she didn't look at him in the court room. I'm sure that could be interpreted so many different ways. I imagine you could cut the tension with a knife! I feel for the jury, whatever decision they make is probably not going to feel like a victory and will be scrutinised from all angles!

yeah, her not looking at her father could be viewed a lot of differing ways. Maybe she did what she needed to do because she doesn't think he is guilty but their relationship isn't great nonetheless. Maybe they are super close in a non molesty way and she simply couldn't bear to look at him because she worried it would cause her to be or seem overly emotional.

 

[BUF]

1:45 p.m. - The defense's 14th witness is Brittney Zapanta, Allen's daughter.
Defense attorney Jennifer Auger asked "Did your father ever molest you?"
Zapanta said no.
Auger asked "Do you love your father?"
Zapanta said no.
Auger asked "Would you lie for him?"
Zapanta said no.
State's attorney James Luttrell tried to ask if Allen went to the Monon High Bridge often. The defense objected, which was sustained.
Luttrell showed Zapanta and the jury photos of Allen. He asked if Allen's appearance changed before she went to college.
Zapanta said no.
Luttrell showed photos from 2014 through 2017 of Allen and asked if that's how Allen looked. Zapanta said they all looked like Allen in 2017.
The state tried to add more photos, but the defense objected and the judge sustained the objection.
The jury asked Zapanta if she visited the Monon High Bridge as a teen. She said yes.
Luttrell asked Zapanta if she had visited the Monon High Bridge with her father. She said yes.
Luttrell asked if Zapanta was scared. She said yes.

Richard Allen's sister and daughter say he never molested them, despite confession | Day 15 of Delphi murders trial

Seven years after Libby German and Abby Williams were killed, the trial continues for the man accused of murdering them.

www.wthr.com

 

[ClearAhead]

They admitted digital from Libby’s phone.

Yes that’s how we learned about Libby’s health app/steps.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

DELPHI, Ind. (WANE)— The afternoon session of Day 5 of the Delphi murder trial focused on cell phone and electronics analysis.