GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #218

[justtrish]

There was no trial testimony regarding eye colour ever mentioned. Whoever was responsible for the “not blue eyes” may’ve retracted their statement. We don’t know, maybe they sighted someone who was later known to not be the killer (ie Libby’s dad while he was searching)? What’s published by the media is not evidence.

Regardless, how he looked at the time of the killings wasn’t even a key trial focus, and although it’s being discussed here now, I didn’t get the impression emphasis on his appearance was what sealed RA’s fate. Too much time has passed. Rather he did himself in by his suspicious behavior and subsequent incriminating statements. JMO

I have seen people with light eyes look very different when they are angry or let's say impaired. The fact it was a nice sunny day and bright outside could cause his eyes to dilate more to adjust for the light and that would make his blue eyes look darker. Also lighting too.. he had what many think is a hat with a little bit of a bill on it so his eyes being shaded somewhat from someone looking could have made them look darker. I don't know if it was the group of young girls that gave the eye color description, but another thought I have is the girls already felt he was creepy and they noticed him and he made them uncomfortable enough to note he was creepy. When someone makes us feel uncomfortable I think we tend to see them as dark or scary and part of that could include dark eyes.. angry eyes.

Also important to note ALL the witnesses had no idea they needed to remember what this man looked like at the time. They didn't see a crime occur and then try to pay attention to get these details accurate as possible. They saw a man on an ordinary day out and about and later learned that he was possibly a man that killed 2 little girls. They did the best they could to recall.

IMO

 

[SMK777]

Disputes over evidence take place during the trial. Good luck to the D if they expect to be granted an appeal to have a second go around for what they failed at the first time around. It just doesn’t work that way.

It does raise a serious question that I hope gets answered. If RA is the right person then it should be able to be adequately answered.

 

[SMK777]

I think you must be referring to the original police statements. But each of these witnesses testified during the trial and expanded on what they saw. And that’s what the jury heard.

I respect their decision. It was they who were tasked to make their decision and that’s all that matters. Of course the defense is going to be complaining and claiming it was wrong.

JMO

The Sherrif quoted her during the trial, adding that RA did not match any of the witness descriptions. It's in the video I posted upthread.

 

[Emma Peel]

Disputes over evidence take place during the trial. Good luck to the D if they expect to be granted an appeal to have a second go around for what they failed at the first time around. It just doesn’t work that way.

It kinda does, though.
In every trial, there's 3 parties who might have "failed" at some point along the way; the appellate takes a long hard look at all 3 parties ... and not just the trial, but every step to trial.
JMHO

 

[ClearAhead]

It does raise a serious question that I hope gets answered. If RA is the right person then it should be able to be adequately answered.

How would you hope it ever could be adequately answered? It would be impossible to prove the correlation between time of death and the time a cellphone quit back in 2017. It was RA himself who claimed the white van spooked him. What other proof is required?

 

[SMK777]

I have seen people with light eyes look very different when they are angry or let's say impaired. The fact it was a nice sunny day and bright outside could cause his eyes to dilate more to adjust for the light and that would make his blue eyes look darker. Also lighting too.. he had what many think is a hat with a little bit of a bill on it so his eyes being shaded somewhat from someone looking could have made them look darker. I don't know if it was the group of young girls that gave the eye color description, but another thought I have is the girls already felt he was creepy and they noticed him and he made them uncomfortable enough to note he was creepy. When someone makes us feel uncomfortable I think we tend to see them as dark or scary and part of that could include dark eyes.. angry eyes.

Also important to note ALL the witnesses had no idea they needed to remember what this man looked like at the time. They didn't see a crime occur and then try to pay attention to get these details accurate as possible. They saw a man on an ordinary day out and about and later learned that he was possibly a man that killed 2 little girls. They did the best they could to recall.

IMO

But for example if the video and audio had shown Bridge Guy to be clearly a black man, would Richard Allen have still been arrested for the crime?

 

[ClearAhead]

The Sherrif quoted her during the trial, adding that RA did not match any of the witness descriptions. It's in the video I posted upthread.

I think the reliability of any witness who offered up a 100% matching description of RA would’ve been deeply questioned. Witness recollect is known to be unreliable and RAs conviction wasn’t centered upon that.

 

[SMK777]

Attorneys for man convicted in Delphi murders believe wrong person is in prison
Andrew Baldwin and Jennifer Augier, Allen's attorneys, say his confessions from inside prison were the result of illegal incarceration, not a sense of guilt.

They also believe the jury's guilty verdict did not serve justice, saying the wrong man is in jail.

"There is no justice. For Abby Williams and Liberty German, if you convict the wrong person, all of that does is double the tragedy, double the injustice. If Richard Allen is not guilty, there are still killers out there. That's not justice," said Augier.

Attorneys for man convicted in Delphi murders believe wrong person is in prison

Allen's attorneys have said they plan to appeal.

www.wlky.com

 

[Jade]

The witness said the guy with the pouf of brown hair was "beautiful and boyish". I suppose RA might appear that way...

RA sending that friendly CVS clerk vibe. Howdy, its just me, can I help you? Boyish: resemble a young boy. I've noted before a smaller stature guy I know that's also naturally light on his feet like KA says RA is looks like a high schooler until you're right up on him.

Again, these witness were not direct where they would have made immediate impressions they are recalling days later what they saw and heard on the trail.

The witness was truthful in what her impression was that day and told that to the sketch artist.

IMO, that's all we want out out witnesses to truthfully tell what they saw to the best of their ability and memory and not to change their statements to fit incoming information.

[...]
A third witness, Betsy Blair told the court that she walked a loop that takes in the High Bridge Trail and a connected NICHES Land Trust property two or three times a week. That day she saw two girls, who she later recognized from news reports as Abby and Libby. She also saw a man standing on a platform jutting out from the Monon High Bridge, about 50 feet from where she made her turn to head back toward the Freedom Bridge at the other end of the trail.

“He just looked like he was expecting somebody or something,” Blair testified. “I just felt like he wasn’t looking for me.”

Blair said the Bridge Guy picture fit the man she saw that day.

[...]

Delphi murder trial, Day 4: Witnesses say they saw ‘Bridge Guy,’ but descriptions vary

Day 4 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused in the 2017 murders of teens Abby Williams and Libby German, follow tracks of hikers who saw a suspect, video from Libby’s phone and more from crime scene

www.basedinlafayette.com

all imo

 

[tlcya]

We got the sentence that brings justice' | Prosecutor Nick McLeland

 

[SMK777]

RA sending that friendly CVS clerk vibe. Howdy, its just me, can I help you? Boyish: resemble a young boy. I've noted before a smaller stature guy I know that's also naturally light on his feet like KA says RA is looks like a high schooler until you're right up on him.

Again, these witness were not direct where they would have made immediate impressions they are recalling days later what they saw and heard on the trail.

The witness was truthful in what her impression was that day and told that to the sketch artist.

IMO, that's all we want out out witnesses to truthfully tell what they saw to the best of their ability and memory and not to change their statements to fit incoming information.

[...]
A third witness, Betsy Blair told the court that she walked a loop that takes in the High Bridge Trail and a connected NICHES Land Trust property two or three times a week. That day she saw two girls, who she later recognized from news reports as Abby and Libby. She also saw a man standing on a platform jutting out from the Monon High Bridge, about 50 feet from where she made her turn to head back toward the Freedom Bridge at the other end of the trail.

“He just looked like he was expecting somebody or something,” Blair testified. “I just felt like he wasn’t looking for me.”

Blair said the Bridge Guy picture fit the man she saw that day.

[...]

Delphi murder trial, Day 4: Witnesses say they saw ‘Bridge Guy,’ but descriptions vary

Day 4 in the trial of Richard Allen, accused in the 2017 murders of teens Abby Williams and Libby German, follow tracks of hikers who saw a suspect, video from Libby’s phone and more from crime scene

www.basedinlafayette.com

all imo

Interesting! Thank you.

 

[FrostedGlass]

New Filing on the State v RA Docket.

(Motion to compel filed by NBCUniversal Media, LLC)

Something for EVERYONE!!

NBCU - Motion to Intervene and to Compel Access to Public Trial Exhibits.pdf


JMHO

I wonder why these three items. If I had to choose, I'd go for the cellphone video OR maybe I'd rather have the interviews.
[snips]
10. Accordingly, NBCU requests leave to intervene in this action for the limited
purpose of seeking access to the public trial exhibits as requested, with priority access to the
following exhibits:

(1) Any and all recorded police interviews with Richard Allen (video and
audio);
(2) Any and all recorded prison phone calls between Richard Allen, his wife
and his mother (audio); and
(3) The 43-second cellphone video clip recorded by Liberty German.

(together, the “Priority Requests”).

NBCU - Motion to Intervene and to Compel Access to Public Trial Exhibits.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[Boxer]

Disputes over evidence take place during the trial. Good luck to the D if they expect to be granted an appeal to have a second go around for what they failed at the first time around. It just doesn’t work that way.

AFAIK Appeals are about procedure, the jurors are the tryors of fact.

 

[Boxer]

I have seen people with light eyes look very different when they are angry or let's say impaired. The fact it was a nice sunny day and bright outside could cause his eyes to dilate more to adjust for the light and that would make his blue eyes look darker. Also lighting too.. he had what many think is a hat with a little bit of a bill on it so his eyes being shaded somewhat from someone looking could have made them look darker. I don't know if it was the group of young girls that gave the eye color description, but another thought I have is the girls already felt he was creepy and they noticed him and he made them uncomfortable enough to note he was creepy. When someone makes us feel uncomfortable I think we tend to see them as dark or scary and part of that could include dark eyes.. angry eyes.

Also important to note ALL the witnesses had no idea they needed to remember what this man looked like at the time. They didn't see a crime occur and then try to pay attention to get these details accurate as possible. They saw a man on an ordinary day out and about and later learned that he was possibly a man that killed 2 little girls. They did the best they could to recall.

IMO

The iris dilates when aggressive or in hunting behavior.
Makes eyes appear dark or black.

 

[Emma Peel]

I wonder why these three items. If I had to choose, I'd go for the cellphone video OR maybe I'd rather have the interviews.
[snips]
10. Accordingly, NBCU requests leave to intervene in this action for the limited
purpose of seeking access to the public trial exhibits as requested, with priority access to the
following exhibits:

(1) Any and all recorded police interviews with Richard Allen (video and
audio);
(2) Any and all recorded prison phone calls between Richard Allen, his wife
and his mother (audio); and
(3) The 43-second cellphone video clip recorded by Liberty German.

(together, the “Priority Requests”).

NBCU - Motion to Intervene and to Compel Access to Public Trial Exhibits.pdf

drive.google.com

my guess:
Proper journalistic standards / highest value sources = original sources. jmho

 

[Yemelyan]

So I'm assuming the state made an argument to the jury that the footage and audio was a match to Richard Allen?

In an interview, prosecution team member James Luttrell said their case was based on these three things:

1. That Richard Allen is bridge guy.
2. That the bullet at the scene was cycled through Richard Allen's gun.
3. That Richard Allen's confessions are reliable.

However, in reading about contemporaneous trial coverage, it does not seem to me that prosecutors attempted to elicit much testimony from witnesses about what the guy on the bridge precisely looked like; they more established this through RA's own statements about where he was and when, and who he saw, aka "the timeline." IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder why these three items. If I had to choose, I'd go for the cellphone video OR maybe I'd rather have the interviews.
[snips]
10. Accordingly, NBCU requests leave to intervene in this action for the limited
purpose of seeking access to the public trial exhibits as requested, with priority access to the
following exhibits:

(1) Any and all recorded police interviews with Richard Allen (video and
audio);
(2) Any and all recorded prison phone calls between Richard Allen, his wife
and his mother (audio); and
(3) The 43-second cellphone video clip recorded by Liberty German.

(together, the “Priority Requests”).

NBCU - Motion to Intervene and to Compel Access to Public Trial Exhibits.pdf

drive.google.com

I guess if you are creating content for TV, the video formats are what you'd want?

 

[SMK777]

In an interview, prosecution team member James Luttrell said their case was based on these three things:

1. That Richard Allen is bridge guy.
2. That the bullet at the scene was cycled through Richard Allen's gun.
3. That Richard Allen's confessions are reliable.

However, in reading about contemporaneous trial coverage, it does not seem to me that prosecutors attempted to elicit much testimony from witnesses about what the guy on the bridge precisely looked like; they more established this through RA's own statements about where he was and when, and who he saw, aka "the timeline." IMO.

Agreed.
His defense is now making the "Amanda Knox" argument that his confessions were made under duress.

 

[iamshadow21]

The iris dilates when aggressive or in hunting behavior.
Makes eyes appear dark or black.

Yeah, it's something described by a number of people who either survived or interviewed Bundy. He had quite vivid cornflower blue eyes, but they'd go almost black when he was attacking someone or describing his attacks to someone later, during his incarceration.

It's probably less obvious on someone with naturally dark eyes, but for someone with lighter ones, the difference can be noticeable.

MOO

 

[Jade]

But for example if the video and audio had shown Bridge Guy to be clearly a black man, would Richard Allen have still been arrested for the crime?

A camera image and audio is not an accuser, it’s not a witness.

A person has the Right to confront their accusers and witnesses in court and question them as to the accusation.

A camera image and audio cannot be questioned by the accused.

An image and audio has to be corroborated by a witness that gets on the stand to testify as to what they saw or heard.

Richard Allen said he was there at the time in question and told what he was wearing.

The witnesses confirmed there was a man, as Richard Allen says was him, in the clothing Richard Allen said he was wearing on the bridge, corroborating the camera image and video.

For the “weight of real evidence” Abigail couldn’t get on the stand to say it was I that took that video as we were ordered down the hill.

Ms. Blair did get on the stand and testified that the picture depicted what she saw of RA/BG on the bridge in the vicinity of the girls shortly before they went missing.

all imo