GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #219

[Salah11]

RBBM

Granddaughter, I believe.

ETA - yes, they’ve handled themselves quite admirably in public. How MP refrained from going after anyone affiliated with RA in public is beyond me. The utmost patience.

Cheers I changed it and the rest stands

 

[somequestions]

Questions 1-4 were addressed at trial. The timeline outlined there fits perfectly and the jury was convinced, BARD. As to the last question, it was Abby's first time crossing the MHB. I'm sure her nerves were raw and Libby was a good friend and let Abby set the pace. Nothing unusual at all, just a couple of kids. MO

I was trying to verify pacing based on the newly released bridge guy 43 second video. However, I do not know how fast or slow anyone walked across the Monon High Bridge that day.

The video does provide some clues about pacing. First, Abigail Williams when she is nervously walking across the bridge with someone behind her walked about as fast as bridge guy did. He barely made any gain on her based on the video. It took bridge guy an extra 16-17 seconds to get off the bridge after Abby if you calculate it from the location Abby was standing when Libby first started the video.

No one knows how long it took Libby to cross the bridge or get from platform 6 to the end. However, it is my opinion that when the video starts Liberty German had just finished crossing the bridge. The reason is when she is pointing the camera at the ground at the start of the video it is literally right at the edge of the end of the bridge and the stone path. She had not yet gone down the small slope to stand alongside the hill that she talked about later in the video. Also, Abby's comment about "Don't leave me up here" also suggests Libby had not actually completely gone down the small slope to stand next to the hill yet. I think Abby made that comment because she thought Libby might go down the hill without her when Libby started to show the hill area on camera.

What the timing of the pictures and this video shows me is that if you take Liberty German's 2:05 pm picture as the starting point and Liberty German's 2:13:52 phone video as the ending point that the girls were not nervous about bridge guy's (Richard Allen's) presence on the bridge until bridge guy got to around platform 5. Then both girls hurriedly sped up to get to the end from that point on.

 

[somequestions]

I had a question about timing walking across the Monon High Bridge.

There is that known 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams that Liberty German took from platform 3 looking back towards the northwest end of the Monon High Bridge. Then we know that the 43 second video was taken at 2:13:52. The 43 second video shows that from platform 6, the girls moved fast to get to the end.
How slow could someone walk from platform 3 to platform 6 on the Monon High Bridge without stopping? Would 6 minutes be too long to walk from platform 3 to 6?

 

[mrjitty]

KAK and RL were included in the list of Nick's unmentionables, which the judge ordered. I'm not sure how the D could have spoken to them on the stand.

I think there are a lot of "too bads" in this case.
MOO

The defence made very limited arguments at the 3day hearing to advance RL and KAK as alta. they were all in on Odinism so now wonder the judge didn’t grant it when they made little effort on it. They could have made offers of proof on KAK/RL during the trial and chose not to call the witnesses.

 

[Salah11]

There had to have been an exchange of some kind as you don’t suddenly jump to the conclusion you are going to be kidnapped/murdered and decide to record.

Libby is already upset when she gets off the bridge, so that points to something having happened previously to her switching on her video, as we can hear it in her sniffs and tone something is massively wrong. We just don't know if it was before they started to cross or halfway across.

IMO

 

[sunshineray]

I can understand Kelsi not noticing that Libby was wearing jeans and not sweatpants. For whatever reason, I had the picture in my mind of Libby still being in the house when Becky told her to take a jacket.

You wrote that Becky talked about the timeline; what did she say about that?

I said it was probably about the timeline of the departure from the house...why the description of Libby's clothes was at first misstated.

 

[sunshineray]

I was trying to verify pacing based on the newly released bridge guy 43 second video. However, I do not know how fast or slow anyone walked across the Monon High Bridge that day.

The video does provide some clues about pacing. First, Abigail Williams when she is nervously walking across the bridge with someone behind her walked about as fast as bridge guy did. He barely made any gain on her based on the video. It took bridge guy an extra 16-17 seconds to get off the bridge after Abby if you calculate it from the location Abby was standing when Libby first started the video.

No one knows how long it took Libby to cross the bridge or get from platform 6 to the end. However, it is my opinion that when the video starts Liberty German had just finished crossing the bridge. The reason is when she is pointing the camera at the ground at the start of the video it is literally right at the edge of the end of the bridge and the stone path. She had not yet gone down the small slope to stand alongside the hill that she talked about later in the video. Also, Abby's comment about "Don't leave me up here" also suggests Libby had not actually completely gone down the small slope to stand next to the hill yet. I think Abby made that comment because she thought Libby might go down the hill without her when Libby started to show the hill area on camera.

What the timing of the pictures and this video shows me is that if you take Liberty German's 2:05 pm picture as the starting point and Liberty German's 2:13:52 phone video as the ending point that the girls were not nervous about bridge guy's (Richard Allen's) presence on the bridge until bridge guy got to around platform 5. Then both girls hurriedly sped up to get to the end from that point on.

I sorry, respectfully, I just don't understand why this time frame you're talking about is at all important to what is occurring on Libby's phone? The man made them alert and then nervous. His approaching presence set off Libby's spidey sense and Abby's too. As we all know now, they were right to be apprehensive as the man wound up being their killer. What does it matter how the initial confrontation played out in the minimal amount of time it took?

 

[FrostedGlass]

The defence made very limited arguments at the 3day hearing to advance RL and KAK as alta. they were all in on Odinism so now wonder the judge didn’t grant it when they made little effort on it. They could have made offers of proof on KAK/RL during the trial and chose not to call the witnesses.

What did they know about KAK and Rl's possible involvement at that time? Considering the judge denied the persons that the Click report mentioned, what would have been the D's chances on getting anything KAK and RL heard at trial? IMO = Zip. I think Nick knew there was something there and that's why he included them in his motion.

 

[somequestions]

I sorry, respectfully, I just don't understand why this time frame you're talking about is at all important to what is occurring on Libby's phone? The man made them alert and then nervous. His approaching presence set off Libby's spidey sense and Abby's too. As we all know now, they were right to be apprehensive as the man wound up being their killer. What does it matter how the initial confrontation played out in the minimal amount of time it took?

In my opinion, the time frame shows that Abby and Libby were not worried about bridge guy's presence on the bridge when he stepped on at the northwest side, at least not until he got close enough, around platform 5. Up until that point, they are moving very slow across the bridge. Or bridge guy got onto the bridge from the southeast side and passed Abby and Libby, but went no further past the girls than platform 5 before turning around.

It proves nothing and does not help identify bridge guy (Richard Allen).

When looking at the totality of the evidence, it appears Richard Allen is probably bridge guy. I know he probably got rid of his blue jacket after the crime, but I would still like to see the blue jacket that was presented to the jury to make sure it has snaps on it if the prosecution claimed it is part of the bridge guy starter kit. In my opinion, the blue jacket in the enhanced bridge guy video is being held together with snaps and not a zipper. I think that is a fact.

 

[Salah11]

So you believe the jacket holds more sway then Richard not having a alibi and admitting he was out on the bridge at the right time?

The jacket isn’t important in the grand scheme of things as to much time have passed. What is important is he is out on the bridge when the girls got taken and murdered and he was found guilty because he did it. Mooo

 

[FrostedGlass]

She said the media distorted it.

For instance, she have a time for when they went to the park, later used her phone to calculate a more accurate time. Kelsi gave a rough time when she dropped them off, later the actual times were fleshed out, including from CCTV of Kelsi's car, passing by HH.

It's really GROSS IMO how the family was treated, online and in motions, for details that everyone should understand borne of chaos. Trying yo her information out as quickly as possible, then adjusting it with specifics, which IS NOT changing one's story but rather correcting, adjusting, filling it in. Natural, normal, expected.

JMO

I understand the chaos. Losing a child must be absolutely unbearable. Nothing of what I'm saying is intended to be hurtful to the families.

I also understand why people question this case as I'm one of them.
Here's the example regarding the timeline: from the beginning many of us watched and respected GH's opinions and video reenactments. When he misunderstood Kelsi and placed one of her shoes on the bridge side of the creek, we believed him. That led more than a few to speculate some of the undressing happened down in that area. So now we know that was not true but was not done out of any ill will or as an attack on the family. We all just misunderstood.

GH also has videos of Kelsi approaching the Mears parking from the east. That always made sense since I was under the impression that they left home and went straight to the Mears where Kelsi dropped the girls off at 1:40 pm.

Now the prosecution tells us her car came from the west and didn't arrive at Mears until 1:49 pm. I don't see how both of those stated times can be true. Kelsi even testified to the 1:40 drop off time in court and I believe her.
{quotes from the article}
The jury saw a glimpse into the happy family as Kelsi shared a selfie taken inside her car as the girls headed to the Monon High Bridge. Libby’s sister then was asked to map out the route she drove from their home to the trail.
Kelsi said she didn’t learn her sister was missing until 4 p.m. She had dropped the girls off at 1:40 p.m.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/grandma-ill-be-okay-libby-germans-grandmother-recalls-day-girls-disappeared-on-delphi-trail/

 

[sunshineray]

In my opinion, the time frame shows that Abby and Libby were not worried about bridge guy's presence on the bridge when he stepped on at the northwest side, at least not until he got close enough, around platform 5. Up until that point, they are moving very slow across the bridge. Or bridge guy got onto the bridge from the southeast side and passed Abby and Libby, but went no further past the girls than platform 5 before turning around.

It proves nothing and does not help identify bridge guy (Richard Allen).

When looking at the totality of the evidence, it appears Richard Allen is probably bridge guy. I know he probably got rid of his blue jacket after the crime, but I would still like to see the blue jacket that was presented to the jury to make sure it has snaps on it if the prosecution claimed it is part of the bridge guy starter kit. In my opinion, the blue jacket in the enhanced bridge guy video is being held together with snaps and not a zipper. I think that is a fact.

It's only common sense you'd look back down the avenue you came down because you most likely will or had planned to go back that way. If someone was starting out onto the bridge you'd either think, great now we have to wait for this person to cross or I wonder if this person is going to cross the whole way or just a bit because they all they want is a looksie. JMO

As far as RA getting on the bridge walking past the girls on the Southside and the turn back to confront them...that's not what BB testified to. She saw him on the bridge and upon leaving that end of the Northside she immediately saw the girls heading to the bridge's end.

I have some simular designed jackets and some have a zipper and buttons.

 

[Megnut]

I understand the chaos. Losing a child must be absolutely unbearable. Nothing of what I'm saying is intended to be hurtful to the families.

I also understand why people question this case as I'm one of them.
Here's the example regarding the timeline: from the beginning many of us watched and respected GH's opinions and video reenactments. When he misunderstood Kelsi and placed one of her shoes on the bridge side of the creek, we believed him. That led more than a few to speculate some of the undressing happened down in that area. So now we know that was not true but was not done out of any ill will or as an attack on the family. We all just misunderstood.

GH also has videos of Kelsi approaching the Mears parking from the east. That always made sense since I was under the impression that they left home and went straight to the Mears where Kelsi dropped the girls off at 1:40 pm.

Now the prosecution tells us her car came from the west and didn't arrive at Mears until 1:49 pm. I don't see how both of those stated times can be true. Kelsi even testified to the 1:40 drop off time in court and I believe her.
{quotes from the article}
The jury saw a glimpse into the happy family as Kelsi shared a selfie taken inside her car as the girls headed to the Monon High Bridge. Libby’s sister then was asked to map out the route she drove from their home to the trail.
Kelsi said she didn’t learn her sister was missing until 4 p.m. She had dropped the girls off at 1:40 p.m.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/grandma-ill-be-okay-libby-germans-grandmother-recalls-day-girls-disappeared-on-delphi-trail/

We don't yet have a transcript of the trial so I don't think we can say exactly what Kelsi testified to or the context in which she said it.

Either time is consistent with missing the group of juveniles and arriving after Richard Allen, and Kelsi no longer had to rely on her best guess as other data points (phone logs, cctv, etc) filled in any gaps.

She may well have said 1:40 early on, may have confirmed in court that she had in fact said that, while 1:49 was the more accurate timestamp.

Libby uploaded a Snapchat photo from inside Kelsi's car at 1:44.

There's just no discrepancy here, no attempt to deceive or obfuscate.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I had a question about timing walking across the Monon High Bridge.

There is that known 2:07pm picture of Abigail Williams that Liberty German took from platform 3 looking back towards the northwest end of the Monon High Bridge. Then we know that the 43 second video was taken at 2:13:52. The 43 second video shows that from platform 6, the girls moved fast to get to the end.
How slow could someone walk from platform 3 to platform 6 on the Monon High Bridge without stopping? Would 6 minutes be too long to walk from platform 3 to 6?

What if they did stop? What is it that your searching an answer to with micromanaging the time frame on the bridge? I'm not seeing a concern between walking slow or faster than slow?

 

[Salah11]

What if they did stop? What is it that your searching an answer to with micromanaging the time frame on the bridge? I'm not seeing a concern between walking slow or faster than slow?

Exactly it’s still Richard Allen out on the bridge and who committed the crime and is now rotting away in jail.

 

[sunshineray]

I understand the chaos. Losing a child must be absolutely unbearable. Nothing of what I'm saying is intended to be hurtful to the families.

I also understand why people question this case as I'm one of them.
Here's the example regarding the timeline: from the beginning many of us watched and respected GH's opinions and video reenactments. When he misunderstood Kelsi and placed one of her shoes on the bridge side of the creek, we believed him. That led more than a few to speculate some of the undressing happened down in that area. So now we know that was not true but was not done out of any ill will or as an attack on the family. We all just misunderstood.

GH also has videos of Kelsi approaching the Mears parking from the east. That always made sense since I was under the impression that they left home and went straight to the Mears where Kelsi dropped the girls off at 1:40 pm.

Now the prosecution tells us her car came from the west and didn't arrive at Mears until 1:49 pm. I don't see how both of those stated times can be true. Kelsi even testified to the 1:40 drop off time in court and I believe her.
{quotes from the article}
The jury saw a glimpse into the happy family as Kelsi shared a selfie taken inside her car as the girls headed to the Monon High Bridge. Libby’s sister then was asked to map out the route she drove from their home to the trail.
Kelsi said she didn’t learn her sister was missing until 4 p.m. She had dropped the girls off at 1:40 p.m.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/grandma-ill-be-okay-libby-germans-grandmother-recalls-day-girls-disappeared-on-delphi-trail/

Whether Kelsei initially misstated the time by 9 mins or not and her phone and Harvest Store video was used to clarify, what difference does it make? She was trying to recall all this after the worst day and night of her life. She was grieving and angry. Whatever the time she dropped them off or the route she took matters not in the scheme of the murders. The 9 mins is just 9 mins more time she had with her sister before she was brutally taken from her. RA still put himself on that bridge, at the time and a witness saw him. Then he himself admitted he was the killer...numerous times, again and again. AJMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Whether Kelsei initially misstated the time by 9 mins or not and her phone and Harvest Store video was used to clarify, what difference does it make? She was trying to recall all this after the worst day and night of her life. She was grieving and angry. Whatever the time she dropped them off or the route she took matters not in the scheme of the murders. The 9 mins is just 9 mins more time she had with her sister before she was brutally taken from her. RA still put himself on that bridge, at the time and a witness saw him. Then he himself admitted he was the killer...numerous times, again and again. AJMO

IMO the timeline is important to the prosecution. In order for BB to see the girls on her way back, they had to be behind her. If they arrived at 1:40, they would have been 6 minutes ahead of her. Did TMS discuss what route she took in her court testimony?

 

[girlhasnoname]

What did they know about KAK and Rl's possible involvement at that time? Considering the judge denied the persons that the Click report mentioned, what would have been the D's chances on getting anything KAK and RL heard at trial? IMO = Zip. I think Nick knew there was something there and that's why he included them in his motion.

I think it's safe to say Click is a lying liar who lies. He wanted to play with the big boys, and how did that work out for him? I can think of only one good use for that 'Click' report.

Did he ever get in front of a Judge on his arrest charges?

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

IMO the timeline is important to the prosecution. In order for BB to see the girls on her way back, they had to be behind her. If they arrived at 1:40, they would have been 6 minutes ahead of her. Did TMS discuss what route she took in her court testimony?

But the prosecution clarified the time to 1:49. What is the problem with that? Kelsei on the Harvest Store cam or her phone's location on the tower or was she using her phone making a call while at the drop off? The only time line that's really important is the time the girls were on the bridge and the time RA was seen on HH cam, arriving on the trails, on the bridge and walking on the road after the murders. The 9 mins, one way or another way, at the drop off matters only for the fact that RA was there from 1:30-3:30, stated by him a few days after the murders. So he was there at 1:40 and at 1:49 per his words.
All that is moot anyway since he confessed so many times and with details only the killer would know. AJMO

 

[Salah11]

But the prosecution clarified the time to 1:49. What is the problem with that? Kelsei on the Harvest Store cam or her phone's location on the tower or was she using her phone making a call while at the drop off? The only time line that's really important is the time the girls were on the bridge and the time RA was seen on HH cam, arriving on the trails, on the bridge and walking on the road after the murders. The 9 mins, one way or another way, at the drop off matters only for the fact that RA was there from 1:30-3:30, stated by him a few days after the murders. So he was there at 1:40 and at 1:49 per his words.
All that is moot anyway since he confessed so many times and with details only the killer would know. AJMO

You will just have to admit defeat and accept some people won’t ever accept the truth unfortunately.