GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #219

[Boxer]

40m

BP talks about the pain of the crime scene photos being leaked, that they're out there forever, made worse by the Defense minimizing it. She says an apology would have gone a lot further.

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Becky Patty

Liberty "Libby" German was a great kid. We spoke to Becky Patty about her granddaughter, advocacy, and more. Pre-order our book on Delphi here: ...

murdersheetpodcast.com

The defense team should have been punished, lost their licenses - that is my gripe with Gull, she tried to reason with them and lost. Its a bad precedence to let defenses leak to SM.

 

[somequestions]

What if they did stop? What is it that your searching an answer to with micromanaging the time frame on the bridge? I'm not seeing a concern between walking slow or faster than slow?

I thought it was important to try to figure out when and where bridge guy Richard Allen entered the Monon High Bridge. I agree Abby and Libby could have stopped and talked for a few minutes on either platform 3, 4, 5, or 6. No one will ever know. It was more about determining where and when bridge guy entered and caused Abby and Libby to pick up the pace or slow down the pace to get to the end of the bridge. At some point before the video starts, both Abby and Libby had to be aware of bridge guy's presence on the bridge because when Abby asks about it in the video, Libby does not say anything to her.

I wonder if Richard Allen drove the 2016 Ford Focus SE to his meeting with conservation officer DD at the grocery store if he knew that he had to walk in the fields behind the Hoosier Harvest Store camera not to be seen on surveillance camera walking back to his car after the murders?

Maybe this case is too simple? Even if police did not recognize bridge guy, due to the lack of traffic on 300 N in the timeframe of 2:30 - 4 pm, they should have at least recognized his car.

 

[Megnut]

I thought it was important to try to figure out when and where bridge guy Richard Allen entered the Monon High Bridge. I agree Abby and Libby could have stopped and talked for a few minutes on either platform 3, 4, 5, or 6. No one will ever know. It was more about determining where and when bridge guy entered and caused Abby and Libby to pick up the pace or slow down the pace to get to the end of the bridge. At some point before the video starts, both Abby and Libby had to be aware of bridge guy's presence on the bridge because when Abby asks about it in the video, Libby does not say anything to her.

I wonder if Richard Allen drove the 2016 Ford Focus SE to his meeting with conservation officer DD at the grocery store if he knew that he had to walk in the fields behind the Hoosier Harvest Store camera not to be seen on surveillance camera walking back to his car after the murders?

Maybe this case is too simple? Even if police did not recognize bridge guy, due to the lack of traffic on 300 N in the timeframe of 2:30 - 4 pm, they should have at least recognized his car.

Rbbm

I don't know that he was aware of the camera. IMO, after he was seen by SC, he left the road. Too risky, he realized.

It is a simple case.

By all accounts, there was only one man near the bridge at the critical 2:13 time frame. Even Richard Allen put himself there. All the witnesses saw the one same BG...

In the end, it's not a mystery. It was math.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

Also now seeing that video it makes a bigger mockery of blaming RL and KK as one was wider than a bus and tall and RL well over 6ft. So you can clearly see from the video he is not much taller than Abby.

 

[sunshineray]

I thought it was important to try to figure out when and where bridge guy Richard Allen entered the Monon High Bridge. I agree Abby and Libby could have stopped and talked for a few minutes on either platform 3, 4, 5, or 6. No one will ever know. It was more about determining where and when bridge guy entered and caused Abby and Libby to pick up the pace or slow down the pace to get to the end of the bridge. At some point before the video starts, both Abby and Libby had to be aware of bridge guy's presence on the bridge because when Abby asks about it in the video, Libby does not say anything to her.

I wonder if Richard Allen drove the 2016 Ford Focus SE to his meeting with conservation officer DD at the grocery store if he knew that he had to walk in the fields behind the Hoosier Harvest Store camera not to be seen on surveillance camera walking back to his car after the murders?

Maybe this case is too simple? Even if police did not recognize bridge guy, due to the lack of traffic on 300 N in the timeframe of 2:30 - 4 pm, they should have at least recognized his car.

I see. To me right after Libby took that picture of Abby is when RA started over. Like I mentioned, the girls probably noticed and were just waiting to see what that person planned to do, cross all the way (in which case, we have to wait) or not (in which case, we can start back over). Added attention and worry arose when RA continuing on towards them. It may have been caused by whatever vibes or possible verbal interaction that may have occured, when the girls first approached the bridge and RA was there. Even more so if he was perhaps off in the woods but still noticeable to them. Young, friendly and trusting in the good of people, they were trapped by a predator. Heartbreaking AJMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I think RA is guilty. I think it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and jury thought so too.
I can list quite a list of things that proved to the jury he was guilty. These things were entered into evidence and testimony was given under oath.
I am tired of listing all these things.
I’d like to see a list of things that prove RA is innocent. Things that are not speculation.

 

[gremlin444]

I thought it was important to try to figure out when and where bridge guy Richard Allen entered the Monon High Bridge. I agree Abby and Libby could have stopped and talked for a few minutes on either platform 3, 4, 5, or 6. No one will ever know. It was more about determining where and when bridge guy entered and caused Abby and Libby to pick up the pace or slow down the pace to get to the end of the bridge.

So, it looks to me like Libby was standing on a platform when she took Abby's picture. Libby seemed to feel fairly comfortable with the bridge/heights.

IMHO, as carefully as Libby was seen walking across the bridge in the video, I think there was definitely inexperience or a fear of heights. And while a friend might be able to coax you to cross the bridge, I don't think that someone's whose first time it is would go onto one of the platforms. And if she had a fear of heights, there is no way she would go onto those platforms. Just looking at the pictures of the bridge and the platforms is scary.

 

[somequestions]

So, it looks to me like Libby was standing on a platform when she took Abby's picture. Libby seemed to feel fairly comfortable with the bridge/heights.

IMHO, as carefully as Libby was seen walking across the bridge in the video, I think there was definitely inexperience or a fear of heights. And while a friend might be able to coax you to cross the bridge, I don't think that someone's whose first time it is would go onto one of the platforms. And if she had a fear of heights, there is no way she would go onto those platforms. Just looking at the pictures of the bridge and the platforms is scary.

I think you understand the point I was discussing about bridge guy's pace. If you asked Abigail William's mother, it would be interesting to know if she thinks Abby would stop and stand on one of those platforms?

It is all speculation as there is nothing documented after the 2:07pm picture taken of Abigail Williams by Liberty German at platform 3. It could be that Abby was moving very slowly and Libby was helping her across at Abby's pace. But no one knows for sure how quickly they moved across the bridge at different points.

What the video shows me is that both Abby and Libby were aware of bridge guy's (Richard Allen's) presence on the bridge before the video ever started. If we make the assumption for a second that Libby is always ahead of Abby on the bridge, I still wonder about the timing. Did Abby stop and turn around to look at bridge guy and that is how she knew he was there? Did Abby gain up to Libby and talk to Libby standing next to her about bridge guy? Did Libby turn around or stop on a platform and tell Abby from a distance that there was a person walking on the bridge behind her? Then she continued ahead to get to the end before Abby.

It is interesting to wonder about how and where they knew about bridge guy being on the bridge.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think RA is guilty. I think it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and jury thought so too.
I can list quite a list of things that proved to the jury he was guilty. These things were entered into evidence and testimony was given under oath.
I am tired of listing all these things.
I’d like to see a list of things that prove RA is innocent. Things that are not speculation.

^^This - It's ironic how we are always defending the position that RA=BG=Killer with facts, yet others insist on claiming his innocence based on what? Maybes and could have beens?

So show me how he is factually innocent based on evidence...nope, not going to happen because RA=BG=Killer.

JMO

 

[Vern]

^^This - It's ironic how we are always defending the position that RA=BG=Killer with facts, yet others insist on claiming his innocence based on what? Maybes and could have beens?

So show me how he is factually innocent based on evidence...nope, not going to happen because RA=BG=Killer.

JMO

BINGO!! Or, as @Warwick7 would put it: "BAM!!!".

-

 

[Megnut]

^^This - It's ironic how we are always defending the position that RA=BG=Killer with facts, yet others insist on claiming his innocence based on what? Maybes and could have beens?

So show me how he is factually innocent based on evidence...nope, not going to happen because RA=BG=Killer.

JMO

Every other witness has been raked over the coals online. Let's look at Richard Allen, as a witness.

He says he was there from 1:30-3:30, later changes it to noon to 1:30 but can't back the latter up with anything. And witnesses who WERE there during that time frame didn't report seeing him nor anyone dressed like him.

He said he left but didn't follow the trails back to his car. A witness saw a man dressed like him along the road on a route he could have taken.

He says he saw 3 juveniles, says babysitting, describes one with long hair. There was only one group at the time, with 4. Did he lie? Miscount? Not count the little one being babysat? Not see the 4th? It's not like he saw a different group of 3. They saw him. And importantly, they saw him as they were leaving, which puts him there shortly before Abby and Libby arrive and during BB's third loop.

Richard Allen put himself on the first platform which BB corroborated. And her course intersected Abby and Libby, as they approached the bridge.

Richard Allen claimed he did not see Abby and Libby. We could believe him. Or we could question that. He might have reason to lie. (Understatement.) He claimed he didn't cross the bridge, but sat on a bench. How did he miss the girls then? Was looking at his stock ticker and missed them walking past him?

He identified himself in the image released by LE, wearing the same clothes, and qualifying it, "wasn't me if it came from the girls' camera". If. That means that there are conditions under which it is him.

Just like the other witnesses, the veracity of their testimony is checked against corroboration.

Some of what Richard Allen described, and his movements during the critical time frame, are supported by corroboration.

And the ones that aren't? One has to ask why.

They directly implicate him for murder.

Prior to his confessions of course.

Lied about when he left. No one (besides Abby and Libby who filmed him) saw him between 2:14 and 3:30. Lied about not seeing Abby and Libby, when he was absolutely on course to see them, per BB's consistent testimony, verified by her fitness tracker and synced with the girls' arrival and movements.

Why lie about that if he's innocent?

But what about BG?

What can Richard Allen tell us about BG? The other witnesses had various vantage points and life experiences and described BG slightly differently but all agreed that the man they saw was the one in the released photo. Richard Allen also saw a man in blue jeans, wearing a blue or black Carhartt jacket. Himself. He saw no other people, nobody dressed like himself. No twin near the first platform. Just his sorry self.

The one who confessed to the murders.
The one who confessed to seeing the girls, claiming he thought they were older.
The one who confessed to intending to SA them.
The one who confessed to "waiting to make sure they didn't suffer" (there's a critical detail only the killer would know, that they didn't die immediately).
The one who confessed to using a boxcutter which ultimately accounted for the peculiarities of the girls' savage injuries.
The one who confessed to day drinking, who provided a timeline that fit, leaving Peru, buying beer, going home, then to the bridge.
The one who said he was interrupted by a vehicle he saw and heard, which caused him to panic and make adjustments.
The one who admitted to having his gun with him after all.
The one who was desperate to have validation from his wife and mother, despite what he'd done.

In the end, Richard Allen proved to be a tremendous witness for the State in criminal trial against Richard Allen.

Resulting in his own conviction.

130 years.

The same number of years he stole from two little girls.

He's the throwaway.

Abby and Libby should still be here, living their best lives, becoming everything they wanted to be.

JMO

 

[statt#1]

I think the girls were just having a jovial time on a nice day, doing a risky thing, crossing that bridge. I can imagine a possible conversation such as this..."Abby, you have to go ALL the way across so you can say you did it" "I'll document it for PROOF". There they are halfway, 3/4's way across, whatever, and they notice this man stepping on to the bridge. He continues coming their way. They make the decision to continue on and step off the bridge so as to allow him to cross, as it appears he's not slowing, or turning around.

The rest is history.

I don't think the girls had any intention of going any further than the end of the bridge. Had RA not been there with murderous intent, they simply would have turned around and went back from whence they came. Simple as that.

I've stated numerous times over the years, to the RA sympathizers....prove RA's innocence. What's his alibi? The reason this question is never answered is simple. He has none. He was on the trails, on that bridge, crossed that bridge as seen on video, ordered them down that hill, saw that white van pass by, forced them at gunpoint over that creek, and brutally murdered them at their final resting place, dropping a bullet during his dastardly deed. No more. No less.

 

[Salah11]

I think Ricky not being in that photo that Libby took of Abby is just bad luck, as if they had done it more along the bridge he would have been in it. There are probably seconds between that photo and him starting to cross. He would definitely have waited and bided his time to make sure nobody else was coming and that they were far enough across so that he could get them alone at the other end.

He knew exactly what he was planning and knew he couldn’t start to cross too early, or his plan wouldn’t work. He needed them halfway across as he knew there would be zero help from the other side, and he didn't want to run the risk of them screaming and somebody hearing them.

 

[FrostedGlass]

The defense team should have been punished, lost their licenses - that is my gripe with Gull, she tried to reason with them and lost. Its a bad precedence to let defenses leak to SM.

IMO
If you're talking about MW, losing their licenses is not likely. It takes a lot for that to happen.
Remember... 3 other attys testified for the defense and 8 other ones signed affidavits. I'm not sure why the judge dragged Rozzi into the MW mess; he had nothing to do with it.

The three day contempt hearing

3.18.24 Contempt - Google Drive

drive.google.com

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think the girls were just having a jovial time on a nice day, doing a risky thing, crossing that bridge. I can imagine a possible conversation such as this..."Abby, you have to go ALL the way across so you can say you did it" "I'll document it for PROOF". There they are halfway, 3/4's way across, whatever, and they notice this man stepping on to the bridge. He continues coming their way. They make the decision to continue on and step off the bridge so as to allow him to cross, as it appears he's not slowing, or turning around.

The rest is history.

I don't think the girls had any intention of going any further than the end of the bridge. Had RA not been there with murderous intent, they simply would have turned around and went back from whence they came. Simple as that.

I've stated numerous times over the years, to the RA sympathizers....prove RA's innocence. What's his alibi? The reason this question is never answered is simple. He has none. He was on the trails, on that bridge, crossed that bridge as seen on video, ordered them down that hill, saw that white van pass by, forced them at gunpoint over that creek, and brutally murdered them at their final resting place, dropping a bullet during his dastardly deed. No more. No less.

I'm addressing this remark: "prove RA's innocence." For me, innocence is presumed and guilt must be proven. The prosecution failed. I think the verdict would have been different if the judge had not cleared the path to RA. She gave the jury no other chance to ask: "If it wasn't him, who else could it be?" MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA's appeal

25A-CR-00591
Court	Court of Appeals

03/18/2025 Appearance by Deputy AG (A. Sanchez and E. Meilaender) Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 03/17/25 DAG: Sanchez, Angela DAG: Meilaender, Ellen Hope Party: State of Indiana File Stamp: 03/17/2025​

 

[Megnut]

I'm addressing this remark: "prove RA's innocence." For me, innocence is presumed and guilt must be proven. The prosecution failed. I think the verdict would have been different if the judge had not cleared the path to RA. She gave the jury no other chance to ask: "If it wasn't him, who else could it be?" MOO

But there are rules of engagement in every trial. There are rules governing third party defenses. LE investigated those potential SODDIS and couldn't find a nexus, couldn't place them at the bridge.

It was the Defense's job to show cause, to the judge, for a particular SODDI or group of them. Targeting a group of Odinists who may be associated with certain individuals might be interesting but thst not how it works! You couldn't say the Girl Scouts did it because so and so is a Girl Scout. A group of people isn't charged with a crime -- individuals are. Surely a third-party defense has to follow that same formula.

I will grant that the Defense failed, on a strategy level. Failed to challenge the evidence successfully at trial. And now that we've seen State's evidence, just as the judge would have, we see why she ruled so often against the Defense. The evidence not only didn't support their assertions it downright refuted it.

They had discovery all along showing activity on Libby's phone, in place. Flying in the face of any fanfic that the girls left the location and returned.

The cartridge -- they did a fair job attacking it -- making much ado about the manner in which it was tested -- in that a soft ejection didn't leave firm enough striations for comparison so the State's expert fired it. But it was a wasted effort in thst apparently the jury tossed the cartridge testimony aside and reached their verdict without it.

They had weeeeeeeeeks to introduce doubt via cross examination. Ask witnesses if it were possible that a second man popped up somewhere, that different descriptions of cars and BGs might leave room for a what if there was another person, who just no one saw.

IMO the Defense failed miserably, on the motions level with absurd, unsupported claims and at trial, with poor cross.

The State proved their case to the jury BARD.

Bottom line.

JMO

 

[Mirabel091]

I think you understand the point I was discussing about bridge guy's pace. If you asked Abigail William's mother, it would be interesting to know if she thinks Abby would stop and stand on one of those platforms?

It is all speculation as there is nothing documented after the 2:07pm picture taken of Abigail Williams by Liberty German at platform 3. It could be that Abby was moving very slowly and Libby was helping her across at Abby's pace. But no one knows for sure how quickly they moved across the bridge at different points.

What the video shows me is that both Abby and Libby were aware of bridge guy's (Richard Allen's) presence on the bridge before the video ever started. If we make the assumption for a second that Libby is always ahead of Abby on the bridge, I still wonder about the timing. Did Abby stop and turn around to look at bridge guy and that is how she knew he was there? Did Abby gain up to Libby and talk to Libby standing next to her about bridge guy? Did Libby turn around or stop on a platform and tell Abby from a distance that there was a person walking on the bridge behind her? Then she continued ahead to get to the end before Abby.

It is interesting to wonder about how and where they knew about bridge guy being on the bridge.

I think, if I were RA, I would want to start crossing when both of the girls were busy with crossing the bridge themselves, facing away from me. It seems reasonably clear that Libby was crossing in front of Abby, presumably to give her confidence. If I was walking ahead of a friend who was slower, I would probably use the platforms to wait for them to catch up a bit, so they don't get too discouraged and panic.

I don't think if I were Abby I would be looking behind me. I would be fully focused on my next step and where my friend is. I also might not want to stop at a platform, because I might not feel safe changing directions so high up, and I might not want to get back on the bridge if I did stop.

If I were RA, stalking behind Abby, I would think I was sneaking up on the girls with Abby only looking ahead. He might not be able to see Libby clearly to notice that she is crossing more confidently than her friend.

So I think it's Libby who would first see they are not alone, the next time she paused to wait for Abby and look back to check how she is getting on. But Abby may have heard footsteps coming up behind her, too.

 

[FrostedGlass]

But there are rules of engagement in every trial. There are rules governing third party defenses. LE investigated those potential SODDIS and couldn't find a nexus, couldn't place them at the bridge.

It was the Defense's job to show cause, to the judge, for a particular SODDI or group of them. Targeting a group of Odinists who may be associated with certain individuals might be interesting but thst not how it works! You couldn't say the Girl Scouts did it because so and so is a Girl Scout. A group of people isn't charged with a crime -- individuals are. Surely a third-party defense has to follow that same formula.

I will grant that the Defense failed, on a strategy level. Failed to challenge the evidence successfully at trial. And now that we've seen State's evidence, just as the judge would have, we see why she ruled so often against the Defense. The evidence not only didn't support their assertions it downright refuted it.

They had discovery all along showing activity on Libby's phone, in place. Flying in the face of any fanfic that the girls left the location and returned.

The cartridge -- they did a fair job attacking it -- making much ado about the manner in which it was tested -- in that a soft ejection didn't leave firm enough striations for comparison so the State's expert fired it. But it was a wasted effort in thst apparently the jury tossed the cartridge testimony aside and reached their verdict without it.

They had weeeeeeeeeks to introduce doubt via cross examination. Ask witnesses if it were possible that a second man popped up somewhere, that different descriptions of cars and BGs might leave room for a what if there was another person, who just no one saw.

IMO the Defense failed miserably, on the motions level with absurd, unsupported claims and at trial, with poor cross.

The State proved their case to the jury BARD.

Bottom line.

JMO

The judge's finding of lack of nexus is confusing. There was RL and BW; was nexus lacking there? While RL's case was cleared, I have yet to find anything about his alibi from the time he left the transfer station and when he left for the fish store. The other one couldn't make up his mind about his arrival time and his bullet couldn't be excluded. How about EF's confession?

I won't be sure about how the defense failed with poor cross until I see the actual court transcripts. I imagine Nick shouted out a lot of objections, which the judge sustained.
MOO

 

[Salah11]

You have to love the pro RA claiming he is innocent don’t have anything to offer in his defense

it’s no wonder he is banged up for life with such convincing evidence