GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #219

[INfisherman]

Rbbm

Good point!

(Except I'm still confused. If LE had an extra number, they would have called it and identified RA during the investigation, separate from the DD tip.)

But it's good to remember that things are often left out of trials. By suppression. By stipulation.

Recent case, conspiracy to commit murder, defendant's phone is never mentioned at trial. Defense got it thrown out on a warrant technicality.

If we ever get transcripts if the trial, it's gonna be voluminous, better then nothing but a real challenge to re-imagine what testimony was like in the original 3D. We may never know what didn't make it to trial (again, technicalities, suppression, stipulation).

Far as we know, they're was next to testimony as to RA's movements that day. I've grown accustomed to that. CAST reports from defendants' cellphones and vehicles, generating a timeline of defendants' movements leading up to and following crimes.

Case continues to come down to the simple fact that the defendant put himself on the bridge at the time if the crime and nothing -- no one, no data, no testimony, nothing -- could get him off of it. And nothing put him anywhere else.

JMO

JMO

Yes, he can’t get off the bridge.

I tend to believe LE had the cell phone number - it might not be stated in black & white but they got the device IDs, they knew the carrier, his name, etc., etc. It seems tons of details were not covered by media or just omitted from the trial for whatever reason.

If you go through the document which listed the discovery inventory, you’ll see a bunch of businesses listed & I think indicators it was video footage. I tend to feel they had him locked in passing by the HHS. None of his vehicles passed by the other cameras along routes through town. It just wasn’t brought up in reports because it wasn’t overly favorable to either side but if anything more inculpatory, combined with the totality of circumstantial evidence.

It’s just a shame there were so many mistakes made along with the whole mess of the initial tip. It’s unreal they ended up getting their boy. He just couldn’t keep his yap shut.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

Not Televising the RA Trial. Open Records Requests?

There are thousands of trials every day across this country that are not televised. It was left to the discretion of the Judge in this case and she chose not.

I think it was a smart decision on her part after all the malarkey and shenanigans pulled by this Defense and their minions. Plus, people forget that CC is a very small, antiquated building and courtroom. Not a lot of capacity for people in general so she assigned the space up fairly IMO. Media, Defense parties, State Parties, and the rest left open to the public.

JMO

JMO

@girlhasnoname Thx for your post w comment about judge's decision re non-televising trial. In IN. yes, discretionary.
If my post gave impression that I was criticizing the judge's decision, that was not my intent.

A One-Size-Fits-All (allow vid cams for all trials or no trials) statute, court rule, or policy is not a realistic solution, as many factors go into the decision for any trial. jmo

My earlier post was meant to address the Open Records request point, more so than that ^ issue. TYVM.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This order. This judge. Unique?

@FrostedGlass
Quoting from ^ thoughtful post. TYVM.

1. "likely have been a number of requests for the documents"
Yes, ¶2 of the order noted that the court has received THOUSANDS of emails re this case.

2. "AFAIK, nobody has received copies."
AFAIK, true, but not sure how we would know as a fact.
Personally doubting that the court, at this stage, would publicly announce - This month, we've fulfilled X number of public records requests re RA case under IN law, section ___.
Same re announcement by any news outlet which may (emphasis, MAY) have received records.

3. "either this issue is rather specific to this judge or the folks requesting the docs are uninformed as to the procedure."
Personally doubting that this judge is the only one in IN requiring exhibit numbers or equivalent. ICBWrong.
Agreeing that some requestors may be unfamiliar w the IN. process.
Likely imo, many requests may have been submitted in a manner not compliant w details of applicable statute or IN. court rule.

Like you said, we'll see.

Alternatives?
In trials where a court authorizes pooled audio-video streaming/recording, a media outlet or anyone viewing, may be able to make public records request, specifying the requested material by the time stamp or hour:min:sec number on the recording. Would seem to apply more to a request for a document type exhibit not visible on camera.

IIRC, judge did not authorize any recording during the RA trial, so not an option in his trial.

Many issues re either "side" of debate re aud-vid cameras in courtrooms. Seems it may be time for changes in our judicial systems.
______________________________________
Judge's Feb 18, 2025 Order

_Order on Feb 18, 2025.pdf

drive.google.com

You are welcome AND thank you for considering my post "thoughtful"; that's a rare compliment.

Regarding #2: Each of the many documents posted here are available because some net people took the time and patience to obtain them from the court and put them out there for all of us to read and share. I'm confident that if they had the requested docs, we would know about it; they're pretty vocal.

I'm truly hoping for changes in our judicial system in Indiana. Transparency being the main issue. The IN courts that I've watched have strict rules against recording proceedings. I don't know if they back them up but I sure hope they do.

 

[INfisherman]

You are welcome AND thank you for considering my post "thoughtful"; that's a rare compliment.

RSBM

I won’t speak for others, but for me, if I’m taking the time to respond directly to a post you’ve made (quoting, etc.), feel free to take that as an indication that your post is thoughtful, at the very least. Just because we may not share the same viewpoints on this case or agree about certain aspects of it doesn’t mean I have no respect for you or feel you post without thinking beforehand.

I’m horrible about posting quickly on occasion - not taking the time to actually "compose" a response - sometimes my posts seem more like a reply to an email or text. A terrible habit I’ve formed from decades of putting out fires via e-mail chains (work related).

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner

02/24/2025 Document Filed Addendum to Defendant's Verified Motion to Preserve and Produce Specific Evidence Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/24/2025​

Edited to add this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894046805140107713

 

[Diddian]

Yes, he can’t get off the bridge.

I tend to believe LE had the cell phone number - it might not be stated in black & white but they got the device IDs, they knew the carrier, his name, etc., etc. It seems tons of details were not covered by media or just omitted from the trial for whatever reason.

If you go through the document which listed the discovery inventory, you’ll see a bunch of businesses listed & I think indicators it was video footage. I tend to feel they had him locked in passing by the HHS. None of his vehicles passed by the other cameras along routes through town. It just wasn’t brought up in reports because it wasn’t overly favorable to either side but if anything more inculpatory, combined with the totality of circumstantial evidence.

It’s just a shame there were so many mistakes made along with the whole mess of the initial tip. It’s unreal they ended up getting their boy. He just couldn’t keep his yap shut.

MOO

I suspect RA couldn't keep his yap shut because LE had released a photograph (from Libby's phone video) that he believed his wife would see and recognize as him. So he likely believed he had to get ahead of that possibility by admitting that he'd been on the trails and the bridge that early afternoon. But RA didn't know what other information LE had at an early stage and didn't want to risk their asking something that could implicate him in front of his wife or at least make her suspicious, so he insisted upon meeting with a representative from LE away from home to give his "witness statement."

 

[INfisherman]

I suspect RA couldn't keep his yap shut because LE had released a photograph (from Libby's phone video) that he believed his wife would see and recognize as him. So he likely believed he had to get ahead of that possibility by admitting that he'd been on the trails and the bridge that early afternoon. But RA didn't know what other information LE had at an early stage and didn't want to risk their asking something that could implicate him in front of his wife or at least make her suspicious, so he insisted upon meeting with a representative from LE away from home to give his "witness statement."

Absolutely - I completely understand why he did what he did. I just look at which is more likely to get me caught & put in prison, the goal is to not get caught or even risk it. The lie to the wife would seem to me to be the safer bet.

I guess what I do not understand is after having murdered 2 people, where does this sudden moral dilemma appear in lying to my wife? If I get caught, I’m going to have to lie to her anyway if I’m going to claim innocence.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Absolutely - I completely understand why he did what he did. I just look at which is more likely to get me caught & put in prison, the goal is to not get caught or even risk it. The lie to the wife would seem to me to be the safer bet.

I guess what I do not understand is after having murdered 2 people, where does this sudden moral dilemma appear in lying to my wife? If I get caught, I’m going to have to lie to her anyway if I’m going to claim innocence.

JMO

I will hazard a guess. I think RA was quite accomplished in maintaining his marriage. Whatever tools. Gaslighting, begging, weeping. *Don't leave me.* *If you leave me, I'll....*

There's a (sick) art in turning attention away from oneself.

*I can't believe you don't trust me.*
*If I killed those little girls, would I really go to the police myself?*
*Why don't you trust me? I talked to the police. They aren't beating down the door. If the police know I'm innocent, why are questioning me?*
*I never went on the bridge. "
*That's not me if it came from the girls' phone. I never saw them that day.*
*You know I love you.*
*You know me. I'd never do something like that.*
*I did do that. Will you still love me?*
*If it gets to be too much...*

Masterful. Take the heat off himself, dump it on her. Now SHE'S bad if she doesn't believe, trust him.

And even now, she has these crazy lawyers jerking with her perception/heart. On some level, she has to know it's basted and done, he did it, it fits.... but here are these real attorneys stirring the innocence pot and she might be left reeling. Might even feel guilty for even thinking he's guilty, might feel guilty for thinking about leaving him, at his darkest hour. In sickness and in stripes....

A whole lot of noise pollution.

But it still can't altogether drown out the reality of what he did that day, regardless of how out of character it might seem.

Me, I ask how he managed for 40+ years to MASK his real character, how he stayed in ordinary CVS guy mode when, in reality, he was a plotting sour grape, capable of kidnapping two little girls, for sexual reasons, then leaving them to the elements, slaughtered.

He's right. No good person does that.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

Me, I ask how he managed for 40+ years to MASK his real character, how he stayed in ordinary CVS guy mode when, in reality, he was a plotting sour grape, capable of kidnapping two little girls, for sexual reasons, then leaving them to the elements, slaughtered.

RSBM

He may not have been able to mask it - this just happens to be the instance where he was cornered & took it to the next level. Likely first murder, but I’ll be resting 6 feet deep feeling he was into CSAM or SA at some point before this. That dad still sitting up in Peru along the banks of the Wabash might know a little something about all that but that’s 100% speculation on my part.

JMO

 

[snarast]

Absolutely - I completely understand why he did what he did. I just look at which is more likely to get me caught & put in prison, the goal is to not get caught or even risk it. The lie to the wife would seem to me to be the safer bet.

I guess what I do not understand is after having murdered 2 people, where does this sudden moral dilemma appear in lying to my wife? If I get caught, I’m going to have to lie to her anyway if I’m going to claim innocence.

JMO

Just guessing but his wife’s wrath is probably unbearable to him. He seems suggestible, histrionic and has a fear of abandonment.

IMO

 

[Diddian]

RSBM

He may not have been able to mask it - this just happens to be the instance where he was cornered & took it to the next level. Likely first murder, but I’ll be resting 6 feet deep feeling he was into CSAM or SA at some point before this. That dad still sitting up in Peru along the banks of the Wabash might know a little something about all that but that’s 100% speculation on my part.

JMO

Could not agree more.

 

[Diddian]

Absolutely - I completely understand why he did what he did. I just look at which is more likely to get me caught & put in prison, the goal is to not get caught or even risk it. The lie to the wife would seem to me to be the safer bet.

I guess what I do not understand is after having murdered 2 people, where does this sudden moral dilemma appear in lying to my wife? If I get caught, I’m going to have to lie to her anyway if I’m going to claim innocence.

JMO

With this guy, I don't think "moral" weighs into his decision making. I think it is entirely primal.

He does whatever serves RA's desires in the moment, whether it is attempting to hold onto his wife or his mother, exercising power over a young teen and her preteen friend that he's managed to corner in a barely populated area in the woods, or presenting an image of an abused prisoner.

 

[al66pine]

Ricci's Uncle's Statement. Did it get a Haircut?

@Niner

02/24/2025 Document Filed Addendum to Defendant's Verified Motion to Preserve and Produce Specific Evidence Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 02/24/2025​

Edited to add this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894046805140107713

Hey @FrostedGlass Thanks for posting ^this.^
I see two versions of Uncle's stmt.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1894046805140107713

The truncated version is two pages, which -
- run from ¶1 to part of ¶15, OMITS ¶¶ 16-19,
- jumps to concluding ¶20
- followed by another paragraph (not sure if that ¶ constitutes a jurat, as the doc. lacks a notarial seal & notary public signature. Does say he is "swearing and affirming"),
- uncle's siggy.
No DATE. No WITNESS siggie.
Marked as def's. Exhibit A.

I can't get the other full 20¶ version image to post here. Argh.
It's 3 pages & includes all ¶¶1 -20.

Did Max Lewis EDIT his post on X? Color me confused.

Regardless, seems it could be sufficient to support def's motion asking for preservation & production evidence? Anyone? TiA.

 

[mrjitty]

Man heard someone say something? Seriously this is some low rent stuff in a bad neighbourhood

 

[somequestions]

There are questions that while they may never have answers I still wonder about. A jury found Richard Allen guilty, and they got to see all the evidence that I did not see.

Richard Allen walking has to pass the Mears parking lot drop off entrance before BB arrives at 1:46pm. BB says there were no other vehicles in the parking lot when she arrived. Libby's sister dropped the girls off around 1:49pm and BB had already got out of her car and started her walk. But if that is true and Richard Allen says he remembers at least two vehicles parked in the Mears lot when he walked past it, then who owned the two vehicles? Did those people ever come forward to talk about being there at the Monon High Bridge trail that day? Wouldn't it be as important to find out who owned the two vehicles as it would be to find out who the three girls were that Richard Allen says he passed at the beginning of the trail at the Freedom Bridge?

I am guessing the answer to the question is that this is just another one of Richard Allen's lies along with the lie about looking at a stock ticker on his phone while at the Monon High Bridge trail.

I wonder if back in February 2017 if DD the conservation officer had the picture of bridge guy with him and asked Richard Allen if that was him if Richard Allen would have still said it is not him if the picture came from one of the girls' phones. Based on the position of bridge guy on the Monon High Bridge, I was surprised he could not have guessed that already the first time he saw it on the front page of the newspaper. Even 5 and a half years later I was surprised he would not just outright deny it instead of putting in some condition. I would have thought by that time he would have known it came from Liberty German's phone like everyone else who follows the Delphi case.

 

[Megnut]

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[Megnut]

The Delphi Murders: First Person: Updates and Conclusions: Part One

In this episode, we focus more on the case updates. In this episode, we just talked about Pre-order our book on Delphi here: ...

murdersheetpodcast.com

First 30 minutes they discuss Gull's response to media requests. Found it sounded petulant, but as to her presence during the trial, they say she was exemplary.

Starting at about 30 minutes, they discuss the Ricci Davis letters, including what they were told directly by KAK.