GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #219

[snarast]

I had to chuckle reading that literary masterpiece, and it doesn't go unnoticed to me that Baldwin so graciously offered to help him write it. An Uncle of a known repeat offender who has been said to try and work deals many times to reduce his own sentence holds no weight with me. It would be truly humorous if it weren't so pathetic and desperate.

Who was this 'nice lady' he spoke to? If he was so concerned he called and so many times, why wouldn't he have gotten a name? Is there anyone Baldwin won't use or take advantage of?? I think not, and that shows the true character of a man.

Another lame attempt at manipulating by a Defense attorney with the scruples of a gnat. Please, Baldwin go away, your days in the sun are over as well as your dreams of being the famous, winning attorney of a high profile case. You've lost all credibility in the Court of Public Opinion. Even Rozzi has enough sense to dial it back.

Judge Gull already issued a response that she/the Court are keeping evidence based upon what is required by law.

JMO

You just made me laugh till I cried. I needed that, I gotta tell you.

 

[girlhasnoname]

You just made me laugh till I cried. I needed that, I gotta tell you.

Glad to help out Baldwin brings out the very worst in me I'm ashamed to say. He's such a fake and a complete BS artist, but what gets to me worst of all is the absolute refusal to show or admit any genuine remorse of what his actions caused to so many, especially the families.

Yet he had the audacity to say he was 'curled up in the fetal position for 4 days' over the release of the CS photos on the Dateline special. Damage control anyone?

The picture he gave to his PI of the MHB where those innocent girls were slaughtered and the signed notes added by Rozzi, Auger, and him show their true lack of character and it makes me see red.

Karma

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Rbbm

Good point!

(Except I'm still confused. If LE had an extra number, they would have called it and identified RA during the investigation, separate from the DD tip.)

But it's good to remember that things are often left out of trials. By suppression. By stipulation.

Recent case, conspiracy to commit murder, defendant's phone is never mentioned at trial. Defense got it thrown out on a warrant technicality.

If we ever get transcripts if the trial, it's gonna be voluminous, better then nothing but a real challenge to re-imagine what testimony was like in the original 3D. We may never know what didn't make it to trial (again, technicalities, suppression, stipulation).

Far as we know, they're was next to testimony as to RA's movements that day. I've grown accustomed to that. CAST reports from defendants' cellphones and vehicles, generating a timeline of defendants' movements leading up to and following crimes.

Case continues to come down to the simple fact that the defendant put himself on the bridge at the time if the crime and nothing -- no one, no data, no testimony, nothing -- could get him off of it. And nothing put him anywhere else.

JMO

JMO

And RA said he had a phone on the trail, using data for stock ticker.
Its a weird lie or detail.

 

[Megnut]

And RA said he had a phone on the trail, using data for stock ticker.
Its a weird lie or detail.

It seems like one of those word puzzles.

RA said he had his phone.

When his number didn't show up, they checked him out, as not being there at the time.

He created a false equivalence.

Because he lied about his phone, the very thing that actually cements premeditated (assuming he turned it off, left it behind, etc).

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

It seems like one of those word puzzles.

RA said he had his phone.

When his number didn't show up, they checked him out, as not being there at the time.

He created a false equivalence.

Because he lied about his phone, the very thing that actually cements premeditated (assuming he turned it off, left it behind, etc).

JMO

Just my theory by the manner RAs mother scoffed off his confessions, he’d been somewhat coddled by her his whole life.

So purely speculation here…..on the day of Feb 13th when he went to visit her she expected he’d go out for breakfast/brunch/lunch (???) with them, obviously they didn’t go ahead without which suggests they waited, anticipating he’d join them. Instead RA buys a six-pack of beer and drinks three. Did he smell of alcohol by the time he arrived at his mother’s place and a confrontation occurred which was why he didn’t go out for the meal with them? Was he supposed to be ‘on the wagon’?

If so it’s not difficult to imagine his mother may’ve also called his wife in alarm and both of them were repeatedly attempted to contact RA on his cellphone. Did they reach him, he hung up and they kept calling? What’s a cowardly guy like RA to do but shut it OFF. It’s further possible this episode created an uncontrollable distain toward females in general which he projected onto young teens desiring to control them (as opposed to the females in his life who he felt controlled him), create fear in his young and helpless victims, and finally silence them through murder…ultimately yielding a feeling of power for him, which he lacked in his day to day life.

This is only a guess but I do notice we know little or nothing of RAs personality and life in early 2017 and what potentially might’ve led up to his murderous spree. It’s as if one day it just happened out of the blue and that can’t be true.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

Just my theory by the manner RAs mother scoffed off his confessions, he’d been somewhat coddled by her his whole life.

So purely speculation here…..on the day of Feb 13th when he went to visit her she expected he’d go out for breakfast/brunch/lunch (???) with them, obviously they didn’t go ahead without which suggests they waited, anticipating he’d join them. Instead RA buys a six-pack of beer and drinks three. Did he smell of alcohol by the time he arrived at his mother’s place and a confrontation occurred which was why he didn’t go out for the meal with them? Was he supposed to be ‘on the wagon’?

If so it’s not difficult to imagine his mother may’ve also called his wife in alarm and both of them were repeatedly attempted to contact RA on his cellphone. Did they reach him, he hung up and they kept calling? What’s a cowardly guy like RA to do but shut it OFF. It’s further possible this episode created an uncontrollable distain toward females in general which he projected onto young teens desiring to control them (as opposed to the females in his life who he felt controlled him), create fear in his young and helpless victims, and finally silence them through murder…

This is only a guess but I do notice we know little or nothing of RAs personality and life in early 2017 and what potentially might’ve led up to his murderous spree. It’s as if one day it just happened out of the blue and that can’t be true.

JMO

I so agree with this.

Shades of passive aggression. Shades of being dominated, submissive, co-dependent. Passive, then rebellious. Resentful. Petulant.

Would like to know more about his relationship with alcohol. Mean drunk? Passed out drunk? Hopeless, despairing drunk.

Was he supposed to be sober... and as you say, showed up drunk, left and got more alcohol? RA provided the 6-pack detail. He volunteered it. He made it significant, when no one would have necessarily known! So just how buzzed/blasted was he? How much did that factor into his decisions that day? What was his marriage like that day? Was RA going for broke? Gave up caring, decided not to hold back. Tired of the women in his life telling him what to do (because he was a sorry minion) so he decided to take his frustration and fury out on little girls whom he could control without mercy?

He's got a serious dark side. It was always there IMO. Simmering.

JMO

 

[INfisherman]

I so agree with this.

Shades of passive aggression. Shades of being dominated, submissive, co-dependent. Passive, then rebellious. Resentful. Petulant.

Would like to know more about his relationship with alcohol. Mean drunk? Passed out drunk? Hopeless, despairing drunk.

Was he supposed to be sober... and as you say, showed up drunk, left and got more alcohol? RA provided the 6-pack detail. He volunteered it. He made it significant, when no one would have necessarily known! So just how buzzed/blasted was he? How much did that factor into his decisions that day? What was his marriage like that day? Was RA going for broke? Gave up caring, decided not to hold back. Tired of the women in his life telling him what to do (because he was a sorry minion) so he decided to take his frustration and fury out on little girls whom he could control without mercy?

He's got a serious dark side. It was always there IMO. Simmering.

JMO

He needed the coddling, support, love forgiveness but likely despised the criticism or suggestions that he was a bad boy. Love/hate thing. He seems to constantly minimize him being wrong about anything, from the smallest life events all the way up to & including criminal acts. Yes, tired of the women in his life being in control all the time, yet it seems he needed that control to feel secure.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

He needed the coddling, support, love forgiveness but likely despised the criticism or suggestions that he was a bad boy. Love/hate thing. He seems to constantly minimize him being wrong about anything, from the smallest life events all the way up to & including criminal acts. Yes, tired of the women in his life being in control all the time, yet it seems he needed that control to feel secure.

JMO

What kind of person could commit a crime like this?

One like that.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Just my theory by the manner RAs mother scoffed off his confessions, he’d been somewhat coddled by her his whole life.

So purely speculation here…..on the day of Feb 13th when he went to visit her she expected he’d go out for breakfast/brunch/lunch (???) with them, obviously they didn’t go ahead without which suggests they waited, anticipating he’d join them. Instead RA buys a six-pack of beer and drinks three. Did he smell of alcohol by the time he arrived at his mother’s place and a confrontation occurred which was why he didn’t go out for the meal with them? Was he supposed to be ‘on the wagon’?

If so it’s not difficult to imagine his mother may’ve also called his wife in alarm and both of them were repeatedly attempted to contact RA on his cellphone. Did they reach him, he hung up and they kept calling? What’s a cowardly guy like RA to do but shut it OFF. It’s further possible this episode created an uncontrollable distain toward females in general which he projected onto young teens desiring to control them (as opposed to the females in his life who he felt controlled him), create fear in his young and helpless victims, and finally silence them through murder…ultimately yielding a feeling of power for him, which he lacked in his day to day life.

This is only a guess but I do notice we know little or nothing of RAs personality and life in early 2017 and what potentially might’ve led up to his murderous spree. It’s as if one day it just happened out of the blue and that can’t be true.

JMO

In this scenario MOO the women would have to have some suspicion of him as he went incommunicado at the time of the murders.
The way they shut him down was as if they did think might be true.

Instead of "Whaaat?"
They were "No you didn't"

 

[INfisherman]

In this scenario MOO the women would have to have some suspicion of him as he went incommunicado at the time of the murders.
The way they shut him down was as if they did think might be true.

Instead of "Whaaat?"
They were "No you didn't"

He seemed to take advantage of his time alone, away from the women. Almost like an out of control child doing his naughty deeds. That missing cell phone might have told many tales.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Then he takes the same phone to the meeting with the conservation officer a few days later and lets him write down the phone's identification number.

We don’t know that RA took the same phone he had on the trail to his meeting with the officer.

jmo

 

[somequestions]

We don’t know that RA took the same phone he had on the trail to his meeting with the officer.

jmo

I suppose that could be true. It would actually be him doing something smart.

I thought he may have taken the same phone because many people seem to think that he never had the phone with him in the first place so taking his real phone to the conservation officer would not matter if it was not there at the Monon High Bridge trail anyway.

It really depends on whether you think Richard Allen was looking at a stock ticker on his phone while at the Monon High Bridge trail to begin with? If the phone was with Richard Allen during the commission of the murders and it could be proven to be on RL's property near Liberty German's phone that would have been great evidence to use against Richard Allen at trial.

Why would he cross the creek onto someone's private property if he claimed he was not there, but his phone was?

Also, the theory is that since LE never found that found from 2017 I thought that maybe he had it with him and this would be a reason to get rid of it. But that was definitely a brazen move to hope that LE would not check out his phone's location when he gave the info to the conservation officer, if you agree that he did have the phone with him during the commission of the murders.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I suppose that could be true. It would actually be him doing something smart.

I thought he may have taken the same phone because many people seem to think that he never had the phone with him in the first place so taking his real phone to the conservation officer would not matter if it was not there at the Monon High Bridge trail anyway.

It really depends on whether you think Richard Allen was looking at a stock ticker on his phone while at the Monon High Bridge trail to begin with? If the phone was with Richard Allen during the commission of the murders and it could be proven to be on RL's property near Liberty German's phone that would have been great evidence to use against Richard Allen at trial.

Why would he cross the creek onto someone's private property if he claimed he was not there, but his phone was?

Also, the theory is that since LE never found that found from 2017 I thought that maybe he had it with him and this would be a reason to get rid of it. But that was definitely a brazen move to hope that LE would not check out his phone's location when he gave the info to the conservation officer, if you agree that he did have the phone with him during the commission of the murders.

We don’t know if he had a phone with him at the trails. If he had a phone, and it was the same one he showed to the officer, then it should have turned up in geolocation. We do know that RA knew there were photographs of BG, so if he did have a phone in his hand, he could not be sure if he’d been photographed with it. He covered his bases by admitting to having a phone, and I suspect he did have one, but it was a different phone than what he brought to the CO meeting, and likely a burner phone.

His report to the CO apparently didn’t match facts. His phone should have turned up to corroborate his timeline. If it did not, then he lied, or provided different phone information to DD.

jmo

 

[Megnut]

We don’t know if he had a phone with him at the trails. If he had a phone, and it was the same one he showed to the officer, then it should have turned up in geolocation. We do know that RA knew there were photographs of BG, so if he did have a phone in his hand, he could not be sure if he’d been photographed with it. He covered his bases by admitting to having a phone, and I suspect he did have one, but it was a different phone than what he brought to the CO meeting, and likely a burner phone.

His report to the CO apparently didn’t match facts. His phone should have turned up to corroborate his timeline. If it did not, then he lied, or provided different phone information to DD.

jmo

But even another phone would have turned up in the geo catch.

I can't believe LE wasn't able to get phone data from his provider. Call history, etc. Maybe it got thrown out over warrant issues. That might explain the silence on both sides.
Maybe he did HAVE his phone, in air plane mode. Maybe he was doing a little creepy videotaping of his own.

Maybe that's why his phone number (or an unknown one) wasn't captured but he indeed was using his phone...

Why else would he pitch it?

What was RA doing all that time after he slaughtered those little girls? Making movies on his phone? That would be a good reason to get rid of a phone. Especially if LE starts posting photos of you on the bridge.

I'd die like to know when he got his next phone.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

But even another phone would have turned up in the geo catch.

I can't believe LE wasn't able to get phone data from his provider. Call history, etc. Maybe it got thrown out over warrant issues. That might explain the silence on both sides.
Maybe he did HAVE his phone, in air plane mode. Maybe he was doing a little creepy videotaping of his own.

Maybe that's why his phone number (or an unknown one) wasn't captured but he indeed was using his phone...

Why else would he pitch it?

What was RA doing all that time after he slaughtered those little girls? Making movies on his phone? That would be a good reason to get rid of a phone. Especially if LE starts posting photos of you on the bridge.

I'd die like to know when he got his next phone.

JMO

I’m wondering if another phone did turn up, but the owner could not be identified (burner).

 

[Megnut]

I’m wondering if another phone did turn up, but the owner could not be identified (burner).

That would make sense. Perfect stalemate too. If the State brings it up, the Defense will say it was SODDI's phone. If the Defebse brings it up, the State will say it's RA's phone. Easier to leave it alone. Quite possibly there's a ruling on it. Because there's sure a big black hole there.

 

[mrjitty]

But even another phone would have turned up in the geo catch.

I can't believe LE wasn't able to get phone data from his provider. Call history, etc. Maybe it got thrown out over warrant issues. That might explain the silence on both sides.
Maybe he did HAVE his phone, in air plane mode. Maybe he was doing a little creepy videotaping of his own.

Maybe that's why his phone number (or an unknown one) wasn't captured but he indeed was using his phone...

Why else would he pitch it?

What was RA doing all that time after he slaughtered those little girls? Making movies on his phone? That would be a good reason to get rid of a phone. Especially if LE starts posting photos of you on the bridge.

I'd die like to know when he got his next phone.

JMO

I don't think his phone was anywhere near the scene that day

We know from the trial that they used lists of phone numbers in the broad area to identity potential witness lists. These lists were longer than the witnesses we saw.

AFAIK, RAs number was not in those lists. IMO that is because his phone was never in the area.

Which makes sense because only an idiot would take their turned on phone to a double murder.

 

[Megnut]

I don't think his phone was anywhere near the scene that day

We know from the trial that they used lists of phone numbers in the broad area to identity potential witness lists. These lists were longer than the witnesses we saw.

AFAIK, RAs number was not in those lists. IMO that is because his phone was never in the area.

Which makes sense because only an idiot would take their turned on phone to a double murder.

I can get behind that.

But then why did he get rid of said phone? Just a coincidence? Or it was incriminating.

What rust might have been on his phone? We can wonder.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

I can get behind that.

But then why did he get rid of said phone? Just a coincidence? Or it was incriminating.

What rust might have been on his phone? We can wonder.

JMO

It may have been in airplane.

But hearing about the investigative workflow, I believe his phone would have shown up in the data trawl if it had connected to the network in the expanded net they cast. And then they would have had at least that info at trial.

Instead they had nothing.

I get your argument about a defective warrant but I suspect the simpler answer is it was just too late. It is strange none of the interviews post trial have shed any light on it.

Like why do they D never talk about it for instance?

 

[ClearAhead]

'I did it': Delphi murder suspect's alleged phone confessions to wife played in court

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen allegedly confessed to the crime in multiple jail phone calls to his wife, which were played for the jury on Thursday.

abcnews.go.com

In another call, Allen said, "I did it, Kathy. I did it. Do you still love me?"
She replied, "Yes, I do. But you didn't do it."

Too many unknowns. Considering the child-like relationship RA appears to have had with his wife, I wonder did KA also have a tracker on his phone to keep tabs on him if he had a tendency to become an unreliable drunk? It wouldn’t surprise me.

So after he fled from his mother’s while guzzling beer, RAs cellphone begins to ring. Then what? Shut off phone = free to commit evil deeds. Can’t have his wife searching for him. Her lips are sealed, for now at least. How can she possibly know he “didn’t do it”, she gave no evidence proving his innocence.

My Speculation only….