Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #203

[iamshadow21]

At a guess, I would say not him, but an actual LE officer (DD seems to have not been official LE and he made no indication it was his job to assess the tips, just record them). I'm sure it's a question that's been investigated. JMO, but I expect the person's initials would be associated with the notation "cleared", but I don't think they're going to reveal that name.

It could be simply that the officer who reviewed it was exhausted and somehow missed reading the tip because they were interrupted, etc.

But I'm sure it's going to be noted for future investigations. There needs to be a really good process in place, for handling the huge amount of information now that there's social media.

I would think, to begin, anyone who had actually been on the trails that day, should have been immediately reported verbally for a more senior officer to interview.

JMO

Huge volumes of information is a perpetual problem in investigations that garner a lot of public attention.

Computerisation helped with problems caused by the tons of paper generated in inquires like the Yorkshire Ripper, but any system is vulnerable at the point of information coming in.

This action, the surname was actually the street name, and at some point, it was labelled 'cleared'. That makes it invisible until someone actually looks at that report with human eyes and goes, wait a minute.

MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

From Rozzi's cross of Liggett:

At 2:33 p.m. defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross-examination of Liggett.

Rozzi asks about Liggett being involved in a contentious election in 2022, to which McLeland objected. Liggett responded that it “had nothing to do with me, it was about the murder of two little girls.”

Liggett is asked “do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?” Liggett responds that there have been leaks but he wasn’t referring to just after the investigation started and said “some information got out, yes.”

Liggett said he did not check to make sure there were no cameras on the south side of the Hoosier Harveststore, he only retrieved video from cameras pointing at 300N.

Rozzi asked Liggett “you’re aware of the discrepancies in Sarah Carbaguh’s take?” “Is it possible you’re wrong?” “Is it possible that Sarah Carbaugh didn’t see anyone that day?”

Liggett tells the jury he agrees that the investigation was chaotic in the beginning and that the FBI worked with them and he knew he could call them.

Liggett tells the jury that “someone cleared that lead and it shouldn’t have been,” referring to the Kathy Shank lead. He tells the jury that it could be challenging to recall what happened in 2017.

Liggett tells the jury he believes Allen acted alone now, “before I was open to anything.”

Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

What the heck are his questions about SC about? So the defense’s tactic is to just assume everything everybody testifies to is made up? “…she didn’t SEE anyone that day?”?
How preposterous. That’s just insulting.
These questions from the people who brought you the Franks fantasy.

 

[Spartygirl]

At a guess, I would say not him, but an actual LE officer (DD seems to have not been official LE and he made no indication it was his job to assess the tips, just record them). I'm sure it's a question that's been investigated. JMO, but I expect the person's initials would be associated with the notation "cleared", but I don't think they're going to reveal that name.

It could be simply that the officer who reviewed it was exhausted and somehow missed reading the tip because they were interrupted, etc.

But I'm sure it's going to be noted for future investigations. There needs to be a really good process in place, for handling the huge amount of information now that there's social media.

I would think, to begin, anyone who had actually been on the trails that day, should have been immediately reported verbally for a more senior officer to interview.

JMO

I am sure other people at the trails that day would willingly go to LE office, Sheriff's office to discuss.

They would NOT go to a conservation officer in a store parking lot.

This small town of Delphi probably has never had anything like the murders of Libby and Abby, 2 teenagers, ever, in their town.

I believe they were overwhelmed at the beginning, had others volunteering to assist and this was all a new process for them.

 

[technicallymissing]

I wish someone would report how the jury is reacting to this agressive behavior to witnesses from the defense

Murder Sheet has been including jury reactions to some extent in their episodes: smiling, nodding along, looking upset etc in response to certain evidence, witness testimonies, behavior from the lawyers involved etc. I’d bet they’ll mention this tonight

 

[MassGuy]

Ok, so the fact that the round in the keepsake box was the same brand as the one found at the scene, is obviously interesting. I figured it was just another round of the same caliber, of the (different) brand found in his weapon, and in magazines.

The items missing from the scene are a sock and pair of underwear.


When Liggett was asked about the search of Allen’s home, he described finding the Sig Sauer .40 caliber pistol in a nightstand. This is the pistol that investigators claim ejected the unspent cartridge that was found next to the girls’ bodies. The defense team has argued against the tool marking science that investigators say links the gun to the unspent round.

Liggett also said another .40 caliber round — the same brand as the one found at the crime scene — was found in a “keepsake box” on a dresser in Allen’s home.

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.

-During testimony on Thursday, it was also revealed that some of the girls’ clothing was missing from the crime scene: a sock and a pair of underwear. That clothing still is missing to this day.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

 

[MiniMoo]

RA gave DD his drivers license per testimony today and so it sounds like they knew where he lived from the beginning-

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

Like what?!?

So, the one that wrote the statement did write the address and name incorrect.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Inthedetails]

RA gave DD his drivers license per testimony today and so it sounds like they knew where he lived from the beginning-

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

Even so, they thought Mr. Whiteman lived on the Allen Av.

Sigh.

jmo

 

[Cedars]

His reply that if the image was from the girls phone it isn't me seems strange to me. Why didn't he point out how the image is someone else and not him?

It's like he's saying the image is him as long as it was taken at a different time by someone else. JMO.

I agree. Just speculating but if he was taken by surprise, maybe one voice is saying "Hey, that's me!", another voice says "Remember, you never saw the girls".

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

Ok, so the fact that the round in the keepsake box was the same brand as the one found at the scene, is obviously interesting. I figured it was just another round of the same caliber, of the (different) brand found in his weapon, and in magazines.

The items missing from the scene are a sock and pair of underwear.


When Liggett was asked about the search of Allen’s home, he described finding the Sig Sauer .40 caliber pistol in a nightstand. This is the pistol that investigators claim ejected the unspent cartridge that was found next to the girls’ bodies. The defense team has argued against the tool marking science that investigators say links the gun to the unspent round.

Liggett also said another .40 caliber round — the same brand as the one found at the crime scene — was found in a “keepsake box” on a dresser in Allen’s home.

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.

-During testimony on Thursday, it was also revealed that some of the girls’ clothing was missing from the crime scene: a sock and a pair of underwear. That clothing still is missing to this day.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

Super curious what his story is for the "keepsake" bullet. I have some odd items in a keepsake box, and I can describe exactly why they are there.

jmo

 

[Spartygirl]

From Rozzi's cross of Liggett:

At 2:33 p.m. defense attorney Brad Rozzi began his cross-examination of Liggett.

Rozzi asks about Liggett being involved in a contentious election in 2022, to which McLeland objected. Liggett responded that it “had nothing to do with me, it was about the murder of two little girls.”

Liggett is asked “do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?” Liggett responds that there have been leaks but he wasn’t referring to just after the investigation started and said “some information got out, yes.”

Liggett said he did not check to make sure there were no cameras on the south side of the Hoosier Harveststore, he only retrieved video from cameras pointing at 300N.

Rozzi asked Liggett “you’re aware of the discrepancies in Sarah Carbaguh’s take?” “Is it possible you’re wrong?” “Is it possible that Sarah Carbaugh didn’t see anyone that day?”

Liggett tells the jury he agrees that the investigation was chaotic in the beginning and that the FBI worked with them and he knew he could call them.

Liggett tells the jury that “someone cleared that lead and it shouldn’t have been,” referring to the Kathy Shank lead. He tells the jury that it could be challenging to recall what happened in 2017.

Liggett tells the jury he believes Allen acted alone now, “before I was open to anything.”

Source: Delphi Murders trial: Day 6 live blog

LOLOLOL-- Priceless !!!!!!!!!

from Rozzi-
Liggett is asked “do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?

My response would have been--
Ummmm-- Yes, sir, I believe they came from your office

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liggett is asked “do you acknowledge that there have been leaks in this investigation?” Liggett responds that there have been leaks but he wasn’t referring to just after the investigation started and said “some information got out, yes.”

 

[BUF]

Murder Sheet has been including jury reactions to some extent in their episodes: smiling, nodding along, looking upset etc in response to certain evidence, witness testimonies, behavior from the lawyers involved etc. I’d bet they’ll mention this tonight

Thank you. Can you please report what if anything important you hear? Would very much appreciate it. At least a timestamp?

I don’t have the patience to listen to these long podcasts.

 

[ClearAhead]

A slightly more detailed account. I wonder if this tip was marked “cleared” after it was confirmed the 3 girls also saw RA, so in stating he didn’t see Libby or Abby it was assumed he was completely truthful.

ETA - Note Richard Allen of Whiteman (Drive) somehow got shortened to Richard Whiteman.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-tip-marked-cleared-found-while-cleaning-out-desk-put-richard-allen-on-the-radar-in-2022/

“When a headquarters move was happening again in 2022, she discovered a box in her desk with handwritten tip numbers. It was September 21, 2022. The specific date was memorable to her because it was her late husband’s birthday.

Shank testified that she didn’t write those handwritten tip numbers and she didn’t know who did. She wanted to make sure the numbers matched the ones that had been put into the database to ensure nothing had been missed.

In that box she found a lead sheet from “Richard Allen Whiteman.” It was dated Feb. 16, 2017— two days after the girls’ bodies were discovered. It said that “Richard Allen Whiteman” had self-reported being on the trails between 1:30 p.m. and 3:30 p.m. on Feb 13— the day the girls went missing— and had seen girls on the trail.

Shank went to her filing cabinets, and under “W”, found the Richard Allen Whiteman file.There was a narrative summary inside and a tip that was marked, “cleared.” She did fix the name to say Richard Allen. Shank testified that when looking more closely at the tip, it said, “Richard Allen of Whiteman.” She knew Whiteman to be a street name in Delphi. So, she concluded the mistake of putting the street name as a last name on the top of the form.”

 

[technicallymissing]

Thank you. Can you please report what if anything important you hear? Would very much appreciate it. At least a timestamp?

I don’t have the patience to listen to these long podcasts.

Definitely! Depends on what time they get the episode out tonight but I’ll respond again to this post of yours with that info by early tomorrow morning at the latest

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Like what?!?

So, the one that wrote the statement did write the address and name incorrect.

JMO MOO JMT

Per the link…during the original 2017 interview

“Dulin testified that Allen met him in the parking lot and they spoke for around ten minutes. He did not record the interview, but took notes on the back of the lead sheet.

He confirmed that his name was Richard Allen, not Richard Allen Whiteman.…”

“Dulin said he collected Allen’s cell phone information, including the MEID number— a specific identifying number for each cell phone.”

“Dulin said he typed up his notes, adding Allen’s drivers license and DMV photo and submitted the packet to detectives. He was not assigned to do a further follow up.”

 

[ClearAhead]

Murder Sheet has been including jury reactions to some extent in their episodes: smiling, nodding along, looking upset etc in response to certain evidence, witness testimonies, behavior from the lawyers involved etc. I’d bet they’ll mention this tonight

Yes I completely agree. It’s their observations that I appreciate, not only verbal statements but how the information is being perceived.

They’re also good at repeating most of the juror’s questions, something that MSM seems to skip past.

 

[Warwick7]

I went back to see when the photo was released and it was 2/15/2017 and in that release it was not stated that it was from the victims phone, it was said that they wanted to talk to this person because he might have seen something. I am unsure of exactly when we learned it was a photo from the victims phone, but he was not being reported as a POI when the photo was released and it was not stated that the photo was from a video on the victims phone.

On 2/16/2017 RA didn't know they had a video or his voice on that video.

This makes so much sense to me. Bam!!!

 

[MassGuy]

Fox 59 reporters are saying court ended for the day around 5pm.

Yup:

State Trooper Dave Vido and ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman were the last to take the stand on Thursday. Both gave further testimony about the search of Allen’s home.

Allen reportedly owned “lots of knives,” according to Vido, along with boxcutters. More than 10 phones were seized from Allen’s home but, again, police noted the phone Allen possessed in February 2017 was not found.

Court ended for the day around 5 p.m.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

 

[BUF]

“Dulin said he collected Allen’s cell phone information, including the MEID number— a specific identifying number for each cell phone.”

Can’t they track the phone from this MEID number as to what happened to it? If they can’t find a tracer it probably means it was disposed of.

 

[statt#1]

Ok, so the fact that the round in the keepsake box was the same brand as the one found at the scene, is obviously interesting. I figured it was just another round of the same caliber, of the (different) brand found in his weapon, and in magazines.

The items missing from the scene are a sock and pair of underwear.


When Liggett was asked about the search of Allen’s home, he described finding the Sig Sauer .40 caliber pistol in a nightstand. This is the pistol that investigators claim ejected the unspent cartridge that was found next to the girls’ bodies. The defense team has argued against the tool marking science that investigators say links the gun to the unspent round.

Liggett also said another .40 caliber round — the same brand as the one found at the crime scene — was found in a “keepsake box” on a dresser in Allen’s home.

Also found during the search of Allen’s home was a blue Carhartt jacket.

-During testimony on Thursday, it was also revealed that some of the girls’ clothing was missing from the crime scene: a sock and a pair of underwear. That clothing still is missing to this day.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-misfiled-report-from-2017-put-allen-in-investigators-sights-in-2022/

Thanks for this little detail. I've been saying for quite some time that ammo. brand found at the scene was unique, and that it matches in this instance isn't terribly surprising to me. Often with 'carry' ammo., a person uses the same brand for years.

I'd suspect more testimony relative to he ammo in the magazines, the chamber of the sig. etc. that were obtained during the search.

 

[Deleted member 229974]

At a guess, I would say not him, but an actual LE officer (DD seems to have not been official LE and he made no indication it was his job to assess the tips, just record them). I'm sure it's a question that's been investigated. JMO, but I expect the person's initials would be associated with the notation "cleared", but I don't think they're going to reveal that name.

It could be simply that the officer who reviewed it was exhausted and somehow missed reading the tip because they were interrupted, etc.

But I'm sure it's going to be noted for future investigations. There needs to be a really good process in place, for handling the huge amount of information now that there's social media.

I would think, to begin, anyone who had actually been on the trails that day, should have been immediately reported verbally for a more senior officer to interview.

JMO

Nevermind.