Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #206

[rez125]

Why has he said emphatically that was was the only one involved then? What does he gain by doing that? Does he have a death wish, to die in prison?

I think his mental state at the time might give you your answer.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Have you ever tried to scream over a creek and against the wind? Maybe a few minutes sustained screaming might get someones attention- but he had a gun to threaten with so MOO that was not happening.

At first I was thinking about how far sound can travel- but quickly landed on the opposite as well- wind, creek, road noise, and who knows what all could have easily muffled the sounds… moo

 

[rez125]

The logistics of there being multiple perpetrators with zero DNA left behind is also difficult to compute. There’s a lot of incredulity that RA’s DNA wasn’t found, but what about the DNA of X number of kidnappers that also happened to escape being noticed by anyone else, including RA?

Wasn't somebody linking yesterday only 10% of murderers leave DNA behind?

 

[Megnut]

Crossing the creek may have been purposeful. To make them wash off.

He may have promised them he'd let them go, let Abby re-dress...

If Abby fainted, perhaps she witnessed Libby's first injury. Utter chaos and horror.

But IMO once he committed to GDTH, he wasn't leaving witnesses.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think his mental state at the time might give you your answer.

I think his guilt did, yes.

 

[MassGuy]

The logistics of there being multiple perpetrators with zero DNA left behind is also difficult to compute. There’s a lot of incredulity that RA’s DNA wasn’t found, but what about the DNA of X number of kidnappers that also happened to escape being noticed by anyone else, including RA?

Exactly. And then you have two killers with the exact same MO. Neither committing an overt sex act, and both killing in the same way. That's one really bad movie plot.

 

[dub]

Agreed it's difficult to imagine, but he's armed with multiple weapons, they're in a desolate area, and he may have positioned one victim with her back towards both himself the other victim when he struck for murder. He also might have used soft but effective restraints that either left no mark or the marks had faded by the time the victims were found.

I know I’m not the first to mention the idea of Abby being rendered unconscious prior to the murders, and specifically as a result of fainting due to stress/hyperventilation/whatever.

But the scenario that makes most sense to me right now is one where that happened, but Libby is actually the one killed first:

-Abby passed out for whatever reason (maybe in response to RA racking the gun) and hits the ground

-Libby sees her go down, isn’t sure what just happened, and reflexively bolts

-RA quickly catches up and kills her, then goes back to Abby who is either still out or just starting to wake up

If you are to believe some approximation of RA’s confession about killing them in a panic, this works pretty well for that too.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Wasn't somebody linking yesterday only 10% of murderers leave DNA behind?

TMS podcast revealed percentage from data collected the Innocence Project.

 

[Deleted member 296739]

That's likely why their bodies were initially separated by several feet, before Allen dragged Libby to the location in which she was found.

But why? Why not just get out of the area? Nothing about this case makes sense- moo

 

[iamshadow21]

That's likely why their bodies were initially separated by several feet, before Allen dragged Libby to the location in which she was found.

If he slashed Abby for instance, which could take as little as a second, then he could immediately turn his attention to Libby. She sees this, and takes off running. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like she got very far.

Everything here wreaks to me as a double abduction committed by a lone man.

And of inexperience.

I think he'd thought for a long time about what he wanted to do, possibly even studied other attackers, but if it's true that he wanted to rape them but then killed them in a panic, it shows that it didn't pan out the way he'd planned. The reality of what he needed to do to control others with independent thought and will was different to his expectations.

Yes, the girls were abducted, yes, they were killed, but if he killed them in a panic to try and regain control rather than that killing in that way being the goal, that shows that the offender wasn't experienced and had no idea what to do except act out with extreme violence.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

The logistics of there being multiple perpetrators with zero DNA left behind is also difficult to compute. There’s a lot of incredulity that RA’s DNA wasn’t found, but what about the DNA of X number of kidnappers that also happened to escape being noticed by anyone else, including RA?

Yes, the ones that had the girls somewhere for 14 hours, according to the defense's theory, and never left a transfer of any DNA, on their bodies, clothes or phone. Now that's some stealthy CIA black ops type operation!

 

[Megnut]

That's likely why their bodies were initially separated by several feet, before Allen dragged Libby to the location in which she was found.

If he slashed Abby for instance, which could take as little as a second, then he could immediately turn his attention to Libby. She sees this, and takes off running. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like she got very far.

Everything here wreaks to me as a double abduction committed by a lone man.

Agreed.

We don't know what he did to, on or near them under the bridge, the creek crossing could wash DNA away, and once on the other side, if he inflicted the first wound on Libby, Abby could have fainted at the sight of that -- and now he's got one victim down and one victim moving. Easy to incapacitate the one, and the other could not get far, not that kind of injury.

It's too chaotic, frenzied for multiple perps. No reason to lose control of the situation if you've got two on two.

I suspect we're going to get a harrowing glimpse into RA's private self in the remaining confessions and his internet searches.

Those poor girls.

JMO

 

[dub]

Exactly. And then you have two killers with the exact same MO. Neither committing an overt sex act, and both killing in the same way. That's one really bad movie plot.

I never had this particular issue with the two perp theory, just because for whatever reason I always imagined one perp doing both of the actual murders, and the other one present for control and being either minimally hands on or not at all.

The time I most bought in to this theory was shortly after RA was arrested, and I figured that if it was correct he was most likely the latter.

Man did I ever have that wrong.

 

[sunshineray]

But why? Why not just get out of the area? Nothing about this case makes sense- moo

Because that's where he wanted her. Looks like he even turned Abby's head the way he wanted it. It was his sick fantasy. When the planned sexual assault/rape went south because he was interupted, his plans changed. He made the rules according to his sick wants. MO

 

[rez125]

Yes, the ones that had the girls somewhere for 14 hours, according to the defense's theory, and never left a transfer of any DNA, on their bodies, clothes or phone. Now that's some stealthy CIA black ops type operation!

If one person can do it why can't two?

 

[flashy09]

But why? Why not just get out of the area? Nothing about this case makes sense- moo

Just a wild guess, but with the anxiety and depression he has, he might have OCD too and it made sense to him to get the victims together to cover them up. He wanted to leave the crime scene a neat and tidy package.

 

[m00c0w]

IMO, it seems like RA was able to effectively block out the murders through alcohol abuse, medication, family, something. He didn’t have whatever that coping mechanism is in prison. He’s stuck with his own thoughts, with the guilt about the murder. Eventually he gets some discovery or something and that triggers a full-on mental health episode because now he’s stuck in a cell with tangible connections to the crime as well. I think at one point he even tried eating the papers, right?

Maybe he’s faking, maybe it’s something else. I do sense real guilt and turmoil in the midst of everything, though, so that’s what makes the most sense to me.

JMO

 

[shonyakay]

If one person can do it why can't two?

There is no evidence more than one person committed this crime.

 

[MassGuy]

I never had this particular issue with the two perp theory, just because for whatever reason I always imagined one perp doing both of the actual murders, and the other one present for control and being either minimally hands on or not at all.

The time I most bought in to this theory was shortly after RA was arrested, and I figured that if it was correct he was most likely the latter.

Man did I ever have that wrong.

If you have two perps there’s no reason to rack a gun for intimidation.

And what would be the motive of the other guy?

Besides all the other issues

 

[sunshineray]

And of inexperience.

I think he'd thought for a long time about what he wanted to do, possibly even studied other attackers, but if it's true that he wanted to rape them but then killed them in a panic, it shows that it didn't pan out the way he'd planned. The reality of what he needed to do to control others with independent thought and will was different to his expectations.

Yes, the girls were abducted, yes, they were killed, but if he killed them in a panic to try and regain control rather than that killing in that way being the goal, that shows that the offender wasn't experienced and had no idea what to do except act out with extreme violence.

MOO

Considering what we just learned today, RA molested children, Chris and Kevin, that we know of right now. I bet there were others. I think his wants just got greater and he wanted to up his control. If we hear him say he didn't mean to kill Abby and Libby, just sexually assault/rape them, THAT will be something I won't believe from him. I think he knew he was going to kill his prey. Small town CVS guy couldn't chance doing anything else and being recognised. IMO. AJMO