Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #207

[iamshadow21]

it’s strange to keep claiming it’s solitary when he has round the clock company

MOO

And access to a tablet to call his family whenever.

MOO

 

[photographer4]

And access to a tablet to call his family whenever.

MOO

.dbm.

 

[mrjitty]

That confession in Feb 2024 is going to be problematic for the psychosis theory.

 

[iamshadow21]

DBM

 

[Arkay]

What’s your solution? Where do you put him that ensures he won’t kill himself, while also ensuring that other inmates don’t have the opportunity to kill him.

No one has provided an answer to this, and if someone can, I’d love to hear it.

There’s many options.

Constant watch
Healthcare
Quieter wing
VP wing
Whatever set up the US has there will be a solution. He would have to take seperate regime. It’s not an unusual situation in prisons.
Anti ligature clothing and bedding and supervised access to meds and shaving.if cash strapped,overcrowded ,falling apart UK Victorian jails can make it work then I’m sure the US can find a solution too

@Rosegold68

With respect, IMO most of what you’ve suggested here as improvements seem to be equivalent to the environment in which RA was being held.

A “separate regime?” How is that different than solitary, if he is separated from the other prisoners?

He already was under constant watch, which I believe was for his safety but which has been a source of complaints about RA being isolated and his rights curtailed.

He already had access to meds and medical treatment.

As to a quieter wing, he had that by being away from the general population.

What would constitute a “VP wing” in a prison? I’m not sure if you meant a VIP wing? Otherwise I don’t know what is meant by “VP wing.” Is it some kind of “violence protection?”

If you meant VIP wing, IMO no one in jail/prison with enough evidence to be arrested is a VIP deserving of kid-glove treatment.

If I’m misunderstanding, I welcome you to clarify for me.

JMO

 

[dub]

That doesn’t answer the question. Not every suicidal inmate also has a massive target on their back.

The threat was coming from both sides.

He was charged well before these ramblings, and they planned to try him without anything of the sort.

This was not some sort of punishment. It was a messy solution to a very unique problem. I can’t think of another case with both elements.

Closest thing I can think of is Israel Keyes, although in his case I think it was less that he was at risk of harm from other inmates and more that they were at risk of harm from him.

He was held in similar isolated conditions in an actual prison under suicide watch for nine months, and it would have been longer but he killed himself while on suicide watch.

He too was never convicted of a crime, incidentally.

Can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone complain about his arrangement.

 

[Vern]

To help put this in perspective the UN’s law is as follows

“UN Nelson Mandela Rules
These rules prohibit the indefinite or prolonged use of solitary confinement, and define 15 continuous days or longer in solitary as torture.”

Mind you that he was in solitary confinement for 13 months. This law was written to try to keep 3rd world countries from being able to torture prisoners with solitary confinement, again, Richard Allen has never been convicted of a crime.

JMO

The Nelson Mandela Rules: Protecting the Rights of Persons Deprived of Liberty | United Nations

The Nelson Mandela Rules emphasize that the provision of health care for prisoners is a State responsibility, and that the relationship between health-care professionals and prisoners is governed by the same ethical and professional standards as those applicable to patients in the community...

www.un.org

https://www.unodc.org/documents/justice-and-prison-reform/Nelson_Mandela_Rules-E-ebook.pdf

Rule 44 describes the conditions of Solitary Confinement and Richard Allen does not qualify.

Rule 44 For the purpose of these rules, solitary confinement shall refer to the confinement of prisoners for 22 hours or more a day without meaningful human contact. Prolonged solitary confinement shall refer to solitary confinement for a time period in excess of 15 consecutive days.

Richard Allen, as we all know, had a tablet through which he could communicate at any time he wished to. He had 2 hour physical visits with his family, he had daily visits with Dr. Wala. (This meets Rule 58).

Section C also deals with "untried prisoners" being kept by LE - including in prison. They shall be kept separate in their own cell etc etc ...

 

[Rosegold68]

@Rosegold68

With respect, IMO most of what you’ve suggested here as improvements seem to be equivalent to the environment in which RA was being held.

A “separate regime?” How is that different than solitary, if he is separated from the other prisoners?

He already was under constant watch, which I believe was for his safety but which has been a source of complaints about RA being isolated and his rights curtailed.

He already had access to meds and medical treatment.

As to a quieter wing, he had that by being away from the general population.

What would constitute a “VP wing” in a prison? I’m not sure if you meant a VIP wing? Otherwise I don’t know what is meant by “VP wing.” Is it some kind of “violence protection?”

If you meant VIP wing, IMO no one in jail/prison with enough evidence to be arrested is a VIP deserving of kid-glove treatment.

If I’m misunderstanding, I welcome you to clarify for me.

JMO

VP= vulnerable person\prisoner…. If I’d have meant VIP I would have said that. Not sure that status exists in prison

And yes, a seperate regime on a quieter or vp wing. It can be with selected inmates or alone depending on risk.The issue seemed to be about the US laws around segregation/isolation….you get round them by doing these other things… you say my suggestions ‘seem to be the equivalent’, well yes, yes they are, but they ‘get round’ your laws and keep it legal. He’s out of solitary but still safe

Duty of care to him as well as to the state.

 

[Rosegold68]

Closest thing I can think of is Israel Keyes, although in his case I think it was less that he was at risk of harm from other inmates and more that they were at risk of harm from him.

He was held in similar isolated conditions in an actual prison under suicide watch for nine months, and it would have been longer but he killed himself while on suicide watch.

He too was never convicted of a crime, incidentally.

Can’t say I’ve ever heard anyone complain about his arrangement.

Wow that’s crazy…..bet that caused issues for that establishment!!

The name is familiar, must look it up

 

[Vern]

His doctor testified at the 3 day hearings that he was suffering from psychosis. These prison guards also called him bashing his head into his cells walls until he was bleeding “just something that he does”

Yet his lawyers chose not to have him undergo a physchiatric health asessment. And, the Psychologist who was seeing him daily, Dr. Wala, herself testified at those same Three Day Hearings that she thought he was feigning symptoms of psychosis.

So, IMO, it's more accurate to utilize "alleged state of psychosis" because that is exactly what it is.

 

[Vern]

By every definition of the words “solitary confinement” Richard Allen was housed in solitary confinement for 13 months, this isn’t “baloney” that his lawyers are perpetrating this is a fact

The have perpatrated numerous things as fact which have then turned out not to be so.

No blood at the crime scene, the rope & beig hung up, the odinists ... etc etc etc

 

[Melted]

The have perpatrated numerous things as fact which have then turned out not to be so.

No blood at the crime scene, the rope & beig hung up, the odinists ... etc etc etc

Solitary confinement is solitary confinement it’s not a subjective term.

 

[MiniMoo]

Listening to LL and am getting goosebumps about Richard Allen's interviews.

I can't wait to see those videos for myself as even when the written part of one was released and I got to see that back in July and August of this year, to me, it didn't come across as someone being dishonest.

However, I need to see these videos for myself of course.

Link: Day 13 Lawyer Lee : Richard Allen's Confessions

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Vern]

Solitary confinement is solitary confinement it’s not a subjective term.

You quoted the UN, I quoted you their definition.

Sorry, but RA does not meet it.

IMO.

 

[snooptroop88]

Trying to stay caught up, I don't know how anyone keeps up on this thread!

 

[MiniMoo]

Back in July and August I said it was a really good interview between Holeman and Richard Allen - one of the best I have read actually.

It actually blew me away!

Even though he was giving tit for tat - Richard Allen's answers were strong and forthcoming.

Lawyer Lee just said it was an excellent interview - imagine watching it like they all are right now!!

I agree with her about Richard Allen not needing to be put on the stand as his testimony is right there in that interview.

There is still more to come of course so am waiting patiently for it.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[pearl]

I seldom post but have followed this case from the beginning. My opinion is that he will be convicted and sentenced to life without the chance of parole. His lawyers claim he is being mistreated because he is in "solitary confinement". The lawyers, if they are around long enough after the trial ends, will sing a different tune if he is put in general population. He and they will want solitary confinement for him them. Yep, gen pop is where he belongs. He will be at the bottom of the food chain within the prison hierarchy. Hardened criminals do not take kindly to horrific crimes against children. I just do not see his two lawyers staying with the case after a conviction. They will have their book deals and leave Richard Allen in the dust. Of course, this is all my opinion.

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, October 30th:
*Trial continues (Day 11) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-9 (10/18-10/28/24) reference post #4 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...hi-murders-richard-allen-arrested-207.727485/
10/29/24 Docket update: Motion For Transport Order. Motion for Transport of IDOC Inmate [Inmate Jesse L. James] filed by Allen. See post #466, page 24, thread 206 to link.
10/29/24 Tuesday, Trial Day 10: The State enters into evidence two video interviews with Allen, from October 13 & 26, 2022. Judge Gull tells the jury that parts are redacted, as they do not pertain to the investigation. The judge allows both videos, one with Prosecutor’s Office investigator Steve Mullins & Sheriff Tony Liggett [Oct. 13] & the other with ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman [Oct. 26]. The State plays the October 13 video first. Mullin & Liggett explain in the video why they are talking to Allen, they read him his rights & tell him he can leave at any time. Allen says he understands. After a recess the jury is shown a video of an interview from Oct. 26, 2022. In the video, Holeman is interviewing Allen. He tells Allen what they took from the house & what is being tested. He tells Allen they took swabs from a lot of the items.
State witnesses: Former Westville prison warden John Galipeau. The state’s next witnesses were Westville officers who observed Allen while he was on suicide watch. Ethan Drang [Suicide watch companion]. Officer Michael Clemons. Officer Smith. Officer Michael Roberts. Officer Brandon Fisher.
For more info see post #225 (Day 10 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-206.727375/page-12
Trial continues on Wednesday, 10/30/24 @ 9am.

 

[INfisherman]

There is no testimony from the medical examiner that a box cutter was used to kill the girls

Respectfully, he didn’t say exactly what killed them but he did allude to a box cutter, according to this report.

In his autopsy reports, Kohr wrote that some of the wounds were serrated and suggested multiple weapons may have been used. He told the defense during a February deposition that there may have been “some class of serration” in some of the wounds.

He later told the court he was “unsettled” over the serration issue. He now believes the wounds could have been caused by something like a box cutter. He said the “minimum” number of weapons needed for the murders was one.

https://fox59.com/delphi-trial/delphi-murders-combative-testimony-from-another-bridge-guy-witness/

JMO

 

[technicallymissing]

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Ten: The Voice of Richard Allen

We discuss the tenth day of Richard Allen's trial. We viewed tapes of Allen's interviews with Tony Liggett, Steve Mullin, and Jerry Holeman, and we heard from...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Áine from TMS says that on paper she did not think RA's response to being shown the BG photo was necessarily that big of a deal, perhaps just weirdly/awkwardly phrased. Apparently in the video of the interview played yesterday in court when LE asks if BG is him, he gives a "weird, breathy laugh" before telling LE that line we all know by now- that if Abby and Libby had taken the picture, it wasn't him. He then continued repeating over and over that he had never met or seen the girls.
33:24 above